Author Topic: Information Please for my daughter ..I am trying to get her  (Read 17942 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Information Please for my daughter ..I am trying to get her
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2006, 05:13:00 PM »
There are pepole out there that will go and get your little girl out of there for you and bring her home where she belongs.
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Offline floridatreasure

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« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2006, 07:47:00 PM »
That would be wonderful, but she is court ordered to be there. I wish it was that easy to have my precious daughter back home where she definitely belongs. I wished I had found this site Before she went to court, I would have fought tooth and nail. I was naive about the legal system, But if I can help Any other child from going through this I will by writing as many letters sending as many emails that I can, once I have my baby girl back in my arms and safe.
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2006, 07:53:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-26 12:12:00, floridatreasure wrote:

"Thank You again, I have sent emails out to I think 4 different people or places today from information I have gotten from here. I am praying that someone contacts me back.

My daughter had no other offenses before all this happened. Her Dad and myself Was married until all of this happened, I have not heard from him since she was put in the camp.I am sure he is scared to try and contact me, as well as he should be. He knew that everything he did to her would come out! He is the one that should be locked up Not my Daughter!! When I pushed about him being arrested for what he did to her their response was "Well She is safe from him now" Excuse me but that is No reason Not to go after him, she wouldn't be in this nightmare if it wasn't for him.

Thank You again, for your help.
"


FT... I admit, I've had a hard time following along - but if your husband - her father "did something to her", then that's known in law as a "mitigating circumstance".   "Mitigating" means - a circumstance that she was IN that brought about her actions for the sake of her survival, or as an emotional result of the action that happened.  

If it is a fact that she was molested - then you should follow the "Mitigating circumstances" path.  

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
-- Ashleigh Brilliant

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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline floridatreasure

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« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2006, 08:58:00 PM »
HH... but if your husband - her father "did something to her", then that's known in law as a "mitigating circumstance". "Mitigating" means - a circumstance that she was IN that brought about her actions for the sake of her survival, or as an emotional result of the action that happened.

If it is a fact that she was molested - then you should follow the "Mitigating circumstances" path

....That is what I thought,If I had known what had happened to her in the beginning I would have done a lot worse than beat his truck up!!
 When I asked about this a while back I was told "She broke the law and she has to pay for that" and also "That this place is the best place for her, because she needs help to deal with what has happened and how to control herself even when things go wrong"
This is what the people at the wilderness camp and juv.justice told me.
I still think it comes down to the money they get from the state and the control over a child.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2006, 09:13:00 PM »
DISCLAIMER:  I am not a lawyer.  Nothing I say constitutes specific legal advice.

Okay, with the additional information about what it says on the legal papers, now I think I understand.  Tell me if I've got it:

Your daughter was on probation for something else and a couple of weeks later got charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

If they were talking about 7 years, and she's 15, then they had to have at one point talked about charging her as an adult?

Okay, so anyway, they charged her as a juvenile, and she went to family court and got convicted either of assault with a deadly weapon or some lesser charge.  Am I right so far?

That violated her probation on the earlier charge, so she now has the two charges to deal with.  Altogether, the maximum sentence for what she's found guilty of probably exceeds four years, so that would put her potentially there until she's 19.  This is where I have a question:

What was the exact charge she was convicted on for hitting her father with the pan?  It matters (a lot) whether it was assault with a deadly weapon or a lesser charge.

Instead of sentencing her to a particular amount of time in juvie, the judge court ordered her to this Program---in effect, he sentenced her to be there.  His sentence was for an indefinite period of time, so she could be there until her 19th birthday.

It doesn't matter to the courts or the law how long you were willing for her to be gone---if she's sentenced, she's sentenced.  And she has been.  It doesn't matter (to the law) how long they told you she'd be there, since what they verbally told you or told you in writing doesn't have any legal weight next to that sentence from the judge.

What you have here is your child has been convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail---with this wilderness camp being the particular form of jail she was sent to.

If I got convicted of breaking into someone's house and got sentenced to 5 to 10 years, then I wouldn't know how long I was going to be in jail.  I'd know I wouldn't be in jail any longer than 10 years, but when I actually got out would depend on if I could get any time off for good behavior or if I came up for parole and could talk the parole board into letting me go.  Mostly parole boards let people go because the jail is crowded and they need the cell for more dangerous people who have done worse stuff more recently.  We get told all sorts of fancy reasons, but overcrowding and the costliness of keeping people in jail is the real one.

Your child is in a very similar situation.  She won't be in wilderness jail any longer than her 19th birthday.  However, with "good behavior" and if they get enough kids in the wilderness jail that they're getting kindof crowded and need that "bed" for a new inmate, they may let her go home sooner.

With her already convicted, sentenced, and serving her time, usually at this point there isn't a whole lot a defense attorney can do.

Your daughter's honest to God best shot at coming home soonest is to not rock the boat and to learn to play their game and tell them what they want to hear.  Hard truth?  She needs to learn how to act and manipulate like a master.

The facility wants to keep the state happy.  The state wants to keep the voters happy by looking like the juvenile justice system is doing a good job, cheap.  The facility and state will want to kick loose some of these kids early.  If your daughter is the best actress pretending to be a good little Stepford Teen, she'll be one of the top ones on the list to be kicked loose to come home.

But when she comes home will still be highly variable because it depends on how much crowding there is in the system generating pressure to turn people loose early.

For future reference, the time to mortgage your house and your firstborn grandchild to pay a good criminal defense attorney is before the court date.

As late as it is now, the more you rock the boat, the more you'll piss them off and the more likely it is that your daughter will be there until her 19th birthday.

I do not *want* all this to be true.  I merely understand that it more than likely *is* true.

You should consult a good criminal defense attorney with experience in juvenile cases.  You should have all your documentation gathered together when you meet with him to reduce how much time it takes him to go through it all.  There might be something he can turn to your daughter's advantage.  

You should listen to what your attorney says and follow his advice---even if that advice is totally what you don't want to hear.

He may well tell you that the only thing your daughter can do at this point is kiss lots of ass.

Like I said, I don't like telling you this.  It sucks, and, as a mother, I can just imagine how you must feel.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2006, 09:19:00 PM »
Oh, by the way, don't even wait to save up the whole amount for a defense attorney to take your daughter's case all the way through an appeal or something.  Start saving, but don't wait.

It will *probably* only cost you a few hundred dollars to have a defense attorney go over your daughter's case from stem to stern and tell you what, if anything, he could do for your daughter if you hired him.  

Don't bother worrying about the whole retainer for the case at this point.  Just retain the guy to find out if there's any hint of a possibility of a legal rabbit down there in the corners of the hat.

Julie
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Offline floridatreasure

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« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2006, 10:45:00 PM »
As hard as it is to hear this I Pray that it doesn't happen this way. There are a few other girls that their Mothers had a lawyer go back in front of a judge and get their daughters felony changed to a misdemeanor and they are getting out soon. The total time they will have spent in there is 1 year. My daughter has already been in there for 8 1/2 months. I tried to talk to one of the mothers to see how and who she used..Big mistake!
As far as my daughter's behavior in there all of the paperwork I get from there states how good she is doing, how polite she is, how she strives to keep peace in there, but yet  they will give her a hard time about just about anything. From the brand of clothes I buy for her to her calling me Mommy, ect.

  I hope this is what you need for the question (What was the exact charge she was convicted on for hitting   her father with the pan? It matters (a lot) whether it was assault with a deadly weapon or a lesser charge. ....

Yes she was on probation for tearing her dad's truck up...it was 3F statue 806.13 criminal mischief, because of the amount of the damage, &.... 1M Battery statue 784.03 (I don't know what the 1M means).
Then the incident happened with her & her father & the pan.... She got charged with 1M Battery statue 784.045 (lal)   on that ,and that violated her probation. She is in there on Violation of Probation Felony and it is to run Concurrent with both cases.
It was Not brought up in court about the 7 years, Juv.Justice told me that when I found out about it was supposed to be she would be in there for 4 to 6 mos. which was a lie, no one is there just for 4 to 6 months. Then when I got the court papers (after she was at the camp) I read it at the bottom of the first page. It states "The Maximum Sentence Allowed By Law Is 7 years, but it doesn't state that she was getting that. And at no time did anyone talk or mention to us that she could be tried as an adult. She has Never been in any trouble before.
It is hard to Find a Good lawyer that will have her best interest at heart and really fight for her. I called Florida Bar Ass. and got some phone # from them, But did not find a lawyer.
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Offline floridatreasure

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« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2006, 10:55:00 PM »
JULIE....I have called some lawyers but so far I haven't had any luck.It is So upsetting to me that it is so very hard to find a Good lawyer that will fight for my daughter....that is one reason I have been searching the web (and how I found this forum)
 If you or any one esle out there knows a Lawyer that Really cares about the child and what is best for her in central fl. Please let me know...
Thank You
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Offline nite owl

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« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2006, 12:15:00 AM »
You really need to let the court know that her father has been molesting her, etc. This is why she did what she did to him and the car. She should not be punished for these acts.

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2006, 03:25:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-26 21:15:00, nite owl wrote:

"You really need to let the court know that her father has been molesting her, etc. This is why she did what she did to him and the car. She should not be punished for these acts.

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

"


I agree. People/children have been found "not at fault" because of abuses they had  endured by their "victims"  previous to an assult.

I personally know and worked for a women who 20 yrs ago slept w/ a gun because her husband abused her often late at night. One night he came home yelling and threatening her, but to his suprise she shot him dead from under the covers.. She took his body to the local dump and drove on to work at the local hospital...all charges were dropped due to "mitagating circumstances" due to the abuse she had suffered from him. This woman told me this when giving me advice about my own situation years ago. I checked it out, and it was all true. The documents still exist at the county courthouse. I think her point was for me to start documenting the abuse I was dealing with, incase....I ever needed the proof.

In NO way does your kids actions measure up to murder.... I say get on that "mitagating circumstances" wagon and ride it all the way to the judges doorstep. A child who is molested especially by a family member is almost above all laws, no matter their "crime". And a state who will not reconize the previous abuse, imo, is neglegent to the care and well-being of children. That could create a case against the State of Fla.
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Offline floridatreasure

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« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2006, 07:00:00 AM »
" You really need to let the court know that her father has been molesting her, etc. This is why she did what she did to him and the car. She should not be punished for these acts."


That is what I thought!! If I had known what had happened to her in the beginning I would have done a lot worse than beat his truck up!!
 When I asked about this a while back I was told  "She broke the law and she has to pay for that" and also "That this place is the best place for her, because she needs help to deal with what has happened and how to control herself even when things go wrong"
....This is what the people at the wilderness camp and juv.justice told me. I have not been able to get back in front of the judge, that is one of the things I was wanting to find out here....how can I get back in front of the judge?....
I still think it comes down to the money they get from the state and the control over a child.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2006, 08:29:00 AM »
Okay, so they didn't try her as an adult, the crimes just had a maximum of 7 years.

I'm not sure when you say you've had no luck getting a lawyer if you mean that you've talked to lawyers and they wouldn't take your case or that you can't find a criminal defense attorney that handles juvenile cases at all.

If the latter, then you can call your local Bar Association and ask for a referral to a criminal defense attorney that handles juvenile cases.

Timeliness matters a lot in legal proceedings, and the time to raise issues of molestation as a factor in self-defense is at trial, and the time to raise it as a mitigating factor is at the sentencing hearing.

If your daughter's defense attorney didn't raise it, then another attorney might be able to get in on the grounds that her counsel was incompetent.

The thing is, right now your daughter is a convicted felon and her word that she was molested or your secondhand word that you believe her isn't worth much.  Your lawyer could, maybe, get her interviewed by a psychiatrist to evaluate her and try to determine if she's been abused.

That's pretty iffy.

You may find it very hard to prove she was molested.

Julie
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2006, 02:08:00 AM »
FT: I've always suspected, because of the people making policy in Florida over the past few years, that they were probably doing about the same thing in the public sector gulags as they've done to us kids in their private ones. They are some soulless bastards because they truly believe they're saving our children from the sorrow of being anything at all like us. They believe it just as much as the people who are throwing bomb laden virgins at our friends and soldiers believe what they do.


"Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly enjoyable to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-step groups. "

--Chaz Bufe

I'll tell you what I told a guy at a protest a couple of weeks ago. It was open meeting night at a Straight spin off called Kids Helping Kids in Milford, Ohio. One of the parents walked up the drive to ask us what we were doing, why the protest. We gave him a flyer showing all the brush offs and shady business between the state licensing agency and some concerned former clients of Straight. Everybody's telling him "hey, man, this is a cult, you know it. Get your kid out..." things along those lines. He says it's his step son and he's only been there a week and a half. I told him he'd probably get in trouble for talking to us and that he'd better go in there, humor them, say just what they want to hear till he could get his boy. I hope that he did and I hope you do too.

Now, look at the very last paragraph of this page:
Quote
The infiltration of Operation PAR by Straight
http://www.thestraights.com/articles/operationpar.htm

"In 1979 when drug store magnet Jack Eckerd wanted more GOP candidates elected to the state legislature he hired Jack Latvala and moved him to Pinellas County. Mel Sembler builds shopping centers for his good friend Jack Eckerd (now deceased). Another place Logan and his team sends wayward kids is to Eckerd Wilderness which was started by Jack Eckerd. "


Julie, do you begin to see why I'm not all a flutter with joy and excitement when I hear the state regulators are mounting up to save the day? Broward, and I would imagine some other counties contracts the local Sheriff's department to perform CYS calls. A call to CYS is a call to the prosecutor, plus the agency taking custody gets a bounty. A few years back, one of these fine officers got busted prostituting a 15yo girl to other officers down around the county line somewhere.

Now, I'n that special? It was of particular interest to me at the time because my teenaged daughter was hanging around some interesting people then. Local cops seemed to like that just fine, till they needed a witness against him. Then they became real interested in "helping" her with whatever problems they could conjure up for her.

Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize an undercover dictatorship. To restrict the art of healing to one class of men, and deny equal privilege to others, will be to constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic, and have no place in a Republic. The Constitution of this Republic should make special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom.
--Abridged quote-Benjamin Rush, M.D., a signer of the Declaration of Independence

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2006, 02:02:00 PM »
Ginger, I get it.  I've always gotten it.  Parts of the system have been and are extremely corrupt.

I just believe it's possible to, locally and for awhile, fix the system.

The system is like a junker of a car where there are always a bazillion things corroded and wrong with it.  Parts of it are ugly--usually the ones most hidden from sight.  It frequently breaks down completely.  It always needs more parts replaced than you can afford.  If you don't run it carefully, your brakes can fail or you can have a blowout on the highway and it can get you killed.

Still, you use it and replace as many parts as you can afford, the next most needed first, and you drive it very carefully, because it gets you from here to there and it's the only car you've got.

I know the system sucks, but trying to replace the worst broken parts and drive it is the quickest, surest, and most efficient way to get from here to there.

But yes, it's a rickety car and a lot of its parts are rusted, corroded, and corrupted.  But it still runs and you can still steer it---the power steering is out, you just have to muscle it around.

If you haven't already, go read about the Battle of Athens, Tennessee.

It's possible to force the system back onto the road---at least for awhile.

Julie
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2006, 04:20:00 PM »
What Im wondering is just how much worse will this get before you see violent protests  :???: and considering how well armed BOTH sides would be in places like florida, Im not looking forwards to that.

Well, that and the media coverup... THAT would be a sight to behold in this day and age (internet, etc.)

BTW, Eudora, nobodys seen ya online in aim or yim, whats up?
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