what if it was even worse than we thought

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-22 04:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

Ok, so I am to believe that because I was barely a 12 year old who was drinking, smoking pot, doing cocaine and going from straight "A"'s in school to failing and constantly skipping school, that the government knew I was going to be trouble for them and found a way to put me in Straight?

Wow.

No, you were just an incidental casualty. Your parents were gullible and the apple don't fall far from the tree. Some of us landed up in the warehouse by other means. Hunker and watch, chile...

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington

[dragonfly]

[starry-eyed pirate]

Eudora,

When I say "the established order of society" I am making a general reference to the people who determine economic policies both domestic and foreign.  I am referring to the people who hold economic, social and political power.  I am referring to people like Mel Sembler who in another age would've owned slaves.  

I think that what the "establishment " learned from the cultural revolution of the 60s was to head the shit off before it can get started, to weed out any potential threats in the form of rising youth before they can get a foothold. $tr8 was a pre-emptive strike against the radical youth.  Drug treatment is/was simply a convenient pretext to serve their agenda.  I realize that not ever'one who was in $tr8 falls into this category, but I believe a significant percentage of the kids I was in there with did.  I notice that the personality and character traits of many of the kids I was in the program with were such that they would be percieved as a threat to the established social order.  These were the kids who could not be made to submit to false authorities.  Kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning.  Kids who refused to surrender their integrity in order to be accepted by the social conventions of the day.  These kids had their own ideas about things and their own original ways to live their lives.  I notice that a lot of kids in $tr8 seemed to have a high intelligence and above average powers of perception.  Again, I realize that this didn't apply to everyone who was in the program.  

I myself was groomed for leadership in the establishment.  I am the first born son of a 2 star admiral(the highest rank in the supply corp) who was once offered a position in the Clinton admin. as Assistant Secretary of Defense under William Perry.  I was expected to follow my fathers lead.  All through my early youth I was on student councils and a natural leader of my peers.  Big things were expected of me but somewhere around the age of 12 I began to act on my instinct and suspicions that I was bein' manipulated and played.  I sensed the injustice and I began to drop out of society, stopped goin' to school, started experimenting with drugs, etc., sought wisdom in my own way.  I became a threat and a potential revolutionary.  A prime candidate for $tr8.

$tr8 was a re-aculturation center designed to make me a submissive slave.  Perhaps $tr8 was different things to different people but this is what is was to me.

Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority.  ::dove::

___________________
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 06:29:00, dragonfly wrote:

"Well, I am PARANOID!!!!!





I think there is an element of truth to my paranoia.

Paranoia is unfounded fear.

I think we psychically bonded in Straight.

I think we were born that way, and not just bonded to other hairless apes but to all critters and non critters. But that's just me.

I don't really know much about psychic bonding.



I think there are people that DO understand that bond.



I think those people could very well have understood that power from the very begining of Seed and Straight etc.

I'm more inclined to believe that they thought they knew quite enough about it and went about mucking around in affairs they never had any business mucking around in.

I think we are effecting each other to this day, as a group.

I think so too.

I think it is very possible that someone still works for Straight, creating forums, organizing protests etc. just to keep an eye on the long term experiment and also to see how much sway they can still muster.



I am wondering and wondering and the possibilities are getting darker and darker.



I still think it's so wierd that my original post about this, my induction into the monkey house, got erased.



That Frank Discussion happened to be the one to re post it.



that the other day I typed in monkey house in the search and NOTHING came up.



then a few hours later, Frank Discussion bumped that thread out of the blue.



That freaks my shit a little bit to say the least.

"

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a notion without accepting it."--Aristotle

I swear to ya, I don't work for the Program, though I'm sure as anything that I have been a tool at times. I'm talking about things like my big brother's first 'earned' talk at open meeting, when I made him crumble into deep heaving sobs. I didn't mean to. I was only saying what they wanted me to say. I thought I was helping him to humor the lunatics, not helping them to break him. And that has carried through like tar on my heels into things like grilling my lover, back in the bad old days, well into the night trying to force a confession of betrayal or guilt or some damned thing. I just thank the powers that be that he was and remains crazy enough to put up w/ my craziness and to gently guide me away from it and into love and light.

But I am not now nor will I ever intentionally do anything wrt the Program but try to undermine, dismantle and subvert it. Don't take my word for it, though. I'm a fucking complex, intelligent and unpredictable entity. Not so easy to slot right off. But you're a smart guy and at least as invested, I think. Reserve judgement for now, as I've learned to do by default.

One other thought: Never attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by stupidity.

I really am not what you would call a professional coder. I'm more like an avid hobbyist. Sometimes, I fuck up. Sometimes data on this server gets lost or damaged. Sometimes you fuck up, typo one of the search terms or something. But I swear to you I never did delete the Monkey House thread and, if I had, then Franky would not have been able to bump it.

 

"Replace end user" (The Top Support Call Closer 10 Years Running)

--Bastard Administrator

_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW  
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO

added one other thought: [ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-23 13:42 ][ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-23 13:43 ]

[dragonfly]

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 09:44:00, dragonfly wrote:

I mean if there is a way for The Evil Doers In Power to remotely influence and affect Straightlings, might they not occassionally get their wires crossed so to speak the same way the phone tappers replayed my recorded voice to me?

Well, there are things in this world that ya just can't explain. I could regale you w/ a couple of stories, but I'll spare ya.

I think maybe we all do have some such powers of bonding and influence. But I also think we get it in more or less equal measure; that them others not only have no more of it than we, but they're probably getting it all wrong just like they did w/ sacharine, formula feeding for babies and so many other things. Don't be skeered!

Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

[dragonfly]

[starry-eyed pirate]

On 2006-02-23 13:59:00, dragonfly wrote:

"I think we may or may not "get" them in equal measure.



When I did sesshins I would notice and experience others thoughts but only after sitting next to them for three or four solid days.



We sat next to each other for months and months.



I'm just off in the bushes, I've been here before. In my heart I know it's not stupid paranoia, or just in my mind, it is just beside the point, or it's not that important, or it's just proof that we can do the same with the same power for our own intentions.



Maybe time for a little fucking MONTY PYTHON! Some wine and some salted in the shell peanuts! fuckin' A Billy my munchkin's hungry!!    
"

Trust your instincts.  You'll be  alright.  ::dove::

[Antigen]

On 2006-02-23 13:17:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:

"In my program at Milton Roy and especially Morgan Yacht Buildings, there were an awful lot of 3rd and 4th phasers that wore various patches on their arms.  I myself never did, but others may remember.  This was lightyears before the Nicotene patch hit the market.  Were we guinea pigs for that?  I remember quite a few kids with the patch and they wore them for various reasons, but us lower phasers were never really let in on the whole thing.

Now that is interesting! I hope someone comes along and fills in those blanks. One odd thing I remember from Sarasota (Marnie and Casselor would have been in on this to some degree) is that the only cold medication we were allowed to take was Sudafed :question:  :exclaim:

Sudafed® contains the active ingredient Pseudoephedrine
Ask any meth head about that! The more bookish, intellectual types who get off on history and chemistry may even regale you w/ entertaining stories about the history of methamphetamine, aka Nazi Meth. Those fly boys in the military (any other program grads land up in the AF?) might even chime in w/ their recollections about go pills and no go pills.

I do believe there's something to that. I file this under "strongly suspected but unproven." It's entirely possible that they based these policy decisions exclusively on the advice of some crack pot toughlove hate group member w/ a medical degree, like ferinstance Donald Ian MacDonald.

It was a real drag to look at people and pretty much know what they were going through and feel empathy for people and then find out that pretty much nobody really gives a shit about you.  

Well, you may take comfort in my take on Program "Awareness". We never did gain any super hero powers in that regard. What we did get was more like a curse. We adopted the ability to make snap judgements about everyone and everything around us and then to invest in them full faith and confidence asif we were dealing in the realm of demonstrable fact. Bullshit!

We all have gut feelings. Sometimes they're right on the mark. Other times we're way, way off. Empathy is good and kind and light. Damning a whole person to the limitations of what you think you know about them based on those immidiate assumptions is dark magics.

All our liberties are due to men who, when their conscience has compelled them, have broken the laws of the land.
--William Kingdon Clifford

[Antigen]

Damn, guys, I have a date to read some fiction or maybe world records and such w/ my shortest master, and I'm already hours late. She's a gentle and kind master, though, and most understanding.

But yenz are getting way ahead of me. Please don't hold up for my sake. I WILL get back and reel this all in as soon as I can. Mean time, I just wanted to say to you, Dragonfly, don't waste a half a second worrying about it. I understand completely. I like you too, enjoyed hanging with you guys and look forward to doing it again. If paranoia is what we're talking about, and not reason and precience then I must be paranoid too. But I don't think so. It's all good, as far as I'm concerned.

Later!

Freedom has a thousand charms to show, That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1840300051/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> William Cowper, a British Christian poet & hymn writer (18th century)

[teachback]

On 2006-02-23 13:37:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"Eudora,



When I say "the established order of society" I am making a general reference to the people who determine economic policies both domestic and foreign.  I am referring to the people who hold economic, social and political power.  I am referring to people like Mel Sembler who in another age would've owned slaves.  



I think that what the "establishment " learned from the cultural revolution of the 60s was to head the shit off before it can get started, to weed out any potential threats in the form of rising youth before they can get a foothold. $tr8 was a pre-emptive strike against the radical youth.  Drug treatment is/was simply a convenient pretext to serve their agenda.  I realize that not ever'one who was in $tr8 falls into this category, but I believe a significant percentage of the kids I was in there with did.  I notice that the personality and character traits of many of the kids I was in the program with were such that they would be percieved as a threat to the established social order.  These were the kids who could not be made to submit to false authorities.  Kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning.  Kids who refused to surrender their integrity in order to be accepted by the social conventions of the day.  These kids had their own ideas about things and their own original ways to live their lives.  I notice that a lot of kids in $tr8 seemed to have a high intelligence and above average powers of perception.  Again, I realize that this didn't apply to everyone who was in the program.  



I myself was groomed for leadership in the establishment.  I am the first born son of a 2 star admiral(the highest rank in the supply corp) who was once offered a position in the Clinton admin. as Assistant Secretary of Defense under William Perry.  I was expected to follow my fathers lead.  All through my early youth I was on student councils and a natural leader of my peers.  Big things were expected of me but somewhere around the age of 12 I began to act on my instinct and suspicions that I was bein' manipulated and played.  I sensed the injustice and I began to drop out of society, stopped goin' to school, started experimenting with drugs, etc., sought wisdom in my own way.  I became a threat and a potential revolutionary.  A prime candidate for $tr8.



$tr8 was a re-aculturation center designed to make me a submissive slave.  Perhaps $tr8 was different things to different people but this is what is was to me.



Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority.  ::dove::



___________________

If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY."

Interesting theories you have here; now allow me to get up on my soapbox for a minute. Straight, Inc. was a scam to make $ off of parental fear of their kids being or becoming "addicted" to drugs. It was an attempt at controlling kids perceived as unruly. I pretty much stop there with it. You & WD like to take it a step further and drag the government in, etc... You both say these things as if they were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. "Radical youth"? Come on, man...do you really buy into this supposition? Sure, a lot of us didn't like school (myself included) but what makes you so sure that Straight was setting itself out to do away with "kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning"? I'm not saying that we didn't perceive these things as teens...but at what point do you make the leap from the known to all of this stuff about being a "threat and a potential revolutionary"? I mean, come on....

And yeah, I'm aware of all the "connections" and all of that...but that could be chalked up to politicians just trying to make themselves look "good" for the voters..

[Anonymous]

This particular forum does ramble, but some of it rings true.  

I've been wondering about "Awareness"
Great Parlor Trick.  Freaks folks out after a while though.  Does anyone wonder what exactly it is?  Heightened sensitivity to non-verbal cues?  Something more?  ADD literature refers to a state of awareness called hyper-focus. I have that.  Tune out the world while reading or thinking.  Tune in to a detail or concentrate on one thing so hard that odd things happen.  Nowadays I tell people that my "bull-shit detector" is highly sophisticated.  

I had it bad.  I wondered about shizophrenia.  Thought I could "read" people.  Eventually, I was able to turn the volume down on it, but despite being out of practice, it's still there.

It's come up before:
Situational Awareness - battlefield term.
In the Zone - Sports term.
Paranoia - fear others dislike.

I remember taking tests in Straight VA.
Myers-Briggs first. Then, I was asked to take another - never learned the name.  I think I actually took several tests while early on my phases, and then another series close to graduation.

I remember signing a waiver and putting my social security number on it.  Twice.  First for a trip to the Pentagon.  We were told it was for a background check, but then the trip was cancelled.  Again when Nancy Reagan and Princess Di came.  A while back I did some work in DC, and a secret service guy asked for my ID.  Came back and handed me a "special pin".  He said "You've been checked out several times before".  He told me the pin should be worn so that other Secret Service Agents would know I was a "multiple approved".  What the hell is that?

I asked to see the test results once, when I was on staff. (they weren't in my file).  I was handed a one page summary by some Exec. (Paige?)
It said I had a 12th grade reading level.  I don't think this was what they tested.






Went to Nova.  Aced anything I took.

[starry-eyed pirate]

On 2006-02-23 15:02:00, Frank Discussion wrote:

"

On 2006-02-23 13:37:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:


"Eudora,





When I say "the established order of society" I am making a general reference to the people who determine economic policies both domestic and foreign.  I am referring to the people who hold economic, social and political power.  I am referring to people like Mel Sembler who in another age would've owned slaves.  





I think that what the "establishment " learned from the cultural revolution of the 60s was to head the shit off before it can get started, to weed out any potential threats in the form of rising youth before they can get a foothold. $tr8 was a pre-emptive strike against the radical youth.  Drug treatment is/was simply a convenient pretext to serve their agenda.  I realize that not ever'one who was in $tr8 falls into this category, but I believe a significant percentage of the kids I was in there with did.  I notice that the personality and character traits of many of the kids I was in the program with were such that they would be percieved as a threat to the established social order.  These were the kids who could not be made to submit to false authorities.  Kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning.  Kids who refused to surrender their integrity in order to be accepted by the social conventions of the day.  These kids had their own ideas about things and their own original ways to live their lives.  I notice that a lot of kids in $tr8 seemed to have a high intelligence and above average powers of perception.  Again, I realize that this didn't apply to everyone who was in the program.  





I myself was groomed for leadership in the establishment.  I am the first born son of a 2 star admiral(the highest rank in the supply corp) who was once offered a position in the Clinton admin. as Assistant Secretary of Defense under William Perry.  I was expected to follow my fathers lead.  All through my early youth I was on student councils and a natural leader of my peers.  Big things were expected of me but somewhere around the age of 12 I began to act on my instinct and suspicions that I was bein' manipulated and played.  I sensed the injustice and I began to drop out of society, stopped goin' to school, started experimenting with drugs, etc., sought wisdom in my own way.  I became a threat and a potential revolutionary.  A prime candidate for $tr8.





$tr8 was a re-aculturation center designed to make me a submissive slave.  Perhaps $tr8 was different things to different people but this is what is was to me.





Fuck $tr8. Fuck Authority.  ::dove::





___________________


If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY."

Interesting theories you have here; now allow me to get up on my soapbox for a minute. Straight, Inc. was a scam to make $ off of parental fear of their kids being or becoming "addicted" to drugs. It was an attempt at controlling kids perceived as unruly. I pretty much stop there with it. You & WD like to take it a step further and drag the government in, etc... You both say these things as if they were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. "Radical youth"? Come on, man...do you really buy into this supposition? Sure, a lot of us didn't like school (myself included) but what makes you so sure that Straight was setting itself out to do away with "kids who innately understood the process of social conditioning"? I'm not saying that we didn't perceive these things as teens...but at what point do you make the leap from the known to all of this stuff about being a "threat and a potential revolutionary"? I mean, come on....



And yeah, I'm aware of all the "connections" and all of that...but that could be chalked up to politicians just trying to make themselves look "good" for the voters.."

That's just the way I see it Frank.  I mean I understand that $tr8 was also a money scam that played on parental fears, that's for sure.  But in addition to that I really think that it was also a way to keep anti-establishment youth from developing into adults who were capable of destabilizing the authoritarian power structure in society.  I was more than an unruly kid who didn't like school.  I was an idealist who believed in the spiritual transcendentalism of the individual as the only real authority.  Metaphorically speaking God is in me, and I will resist wholeheartedly any attempt by external authorities to convince, coerce or otherwise blackmail me into believing otherwise. My rebellion against authority had intention and purpose. It was to truly be free, as I was born to be.  Seems all my damn life no matter where I turn ever'one wants a piece of me; wants me to serve their agenda, but I am not a tool.  I wasn't born to be a slave.  I am a human being.  I have to live according to my nature.  In a society which is bent on using people as tools I am a social revolutionary(I don't know...maybe that term is a little strong, but I don't know what word would be more accurate).  I think it's obvious that the main reason I was placed in $tr8 was because the school system and my parents had decided that I was getting too far outside of the bounds of their control.  I wasn't submitting to their program, and therefore would not become a productive cog in their machine.  As I grew stronger by the day they became more and more afraid of me and the things I might discover.  They were insecure control freaks terrified of my natural instincts.  All these social institutions that function as social control mechanisms are the manifestations of a very deep fear of Nature.  So yeah I do believe that programs like $tr8, in addition to being other things, are a bulwhark against social revolution set up by the establishment. The public school systems' primary function is to brainwash students to become nationalists and make them submissive to Authority, hence the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance every morning by the class as a group and all the patriotic songs the children sing, etc. $tr8 is just an extension of the school system.  A lot of us kids who ended up in $tr8 programs were just the stubborn, independent, free thinking types who placed a high value on our own personal integrity and autonomy.  When the school systems' authoritarian program of intimidation didn't take, we, the strong willed individuals who were filtered out and targetted for re-acculturation ended up in $tr8.  These institutions are all tools of oppression and exploitation. This is what I see.

 ::dove::

I've tried to articulate my thoughts clearly but I'm not so sure I've been sucsessful.  

Hey, ya wanna hear somethin' really beautiful ??  It's basically what I'm tryin' to say:

"Babylon System" by Robert Nesta Marley

"We refuse to be
What you wanted us to be
We are what we are
That's the way it's going to be
You can't educate I
For no equal opportunity
Talking about my Freedom
People, Freedom and Liberty

Yeah, we've been trodding on
The winepress much too long
Rebel, Rebel
We've been trodding on the
Winepress much too long, Rebel

Babylon system is the vampire
Sucking the children day by day
Babylon system is the vampire
Sucking the blood of the Sufferahs
Building church and university
Decieving the people continually
Me say them graduating thieves
And murderers, look out now
Sucking the blood of the Sufferahs

Tell the children the truth
Tell the children the truth
Tell the children the truth right now
Come on and tell the children the truth".


(I got my fist in the air right now)Peace!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-23 13:17:00, 85 Day Jerk wrote:

"In my program at Milton Roy and especially Morgan Yacht Buildings, there were an awful lot of 3rd and 4th phasers that wore various patches on their arms.  I myself never did, but others may remember.  This was lightyears before the Nicotene patch hit the market.  Were we guinea pigs for that?  I remember quite a few kids with the patch and they wore them for various reasons, but us lower phasers were never really let in on the whole thing.

From what I recall, those were not "patches" as you call them, but band-aids to cover tattoos.

[Anonymous]

No, you were just an incidental casualty. Your parents were gullible and the apple don't fall far from the tree. Some of us landed up in the warehouse by other means. Hunker and watch, chile...

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington

"
[/quote]

Thanks for dismissing my experience.  Just because I did not experience the same aweful things as others did, this invalidates my experience at Straight?  Thanks for the objectivity.