General Interest > Feed Your Head
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Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2006-02-17 16:03:00, Tonkatsu wrote:
"Rudy B. was not a skidrow drunk...just your basic socially accepted alcoholic. Couldn't get through the day without his scotch. Right, Rudy? You remember your Johnnie Walker (on a good day) with your Ranier Ale chasers?? Ooops. I forgot. You have no memory pre-Cedu. Or shall I say selective memory? "
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Huh?
Tonkatsu:
--- Quote ---On 2006-02-17 10:38:00, Eudora wrote:
"Listening to it again, Richard Reese says his son wasn't really fucking up, they were just paranoid that he might start any minute. Then in the next breath he describes shipping him off as an extreme sort of move. WTF??? And, of course, neither programmed parent can get Maia's name right. Reese refers to her as Andrea. Did he have her mixed up w/ Andrea from PFRR, maybe?
Next guy calls her Ms. Sullivan????
In case you guys are reading here, please take a little advice. Skip the next couple of seminars and toughlove parent hategroup meetings. Catch up on some sleep. Seek out information and opinions other than program propaganda. Here's an idea actually read the book before commenting on the issue. Maia has done her homework. She's not a layman gadfly like I am and she's not directly involved in the industry as you are. She's a bona fied, qualified and respected investigative journalist, specializing in drug treatment and health issues.
Rudy Bentz, otoh, has as his only credential the same as Chuck Dederich, Joe Ricci and Art Barker; they all were skidrow drunks or junkies who became evangelical cult gurus. That's it. That's their entire claim to expertise.
We will make mistakes. Learning from them doesn't make us heros. It only gives us a passing grade on the evolutionary scale.
Antigen
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"
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The Rudy B. post was in response to this. Sorry about the lack of proper sequence.
TheWho:
--- Quote ---I guess you don't have kids younger than your daughter, huh?
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Yes, I do.
Thanks for the links, I'll check it out.
I think her name was Stephanie, the social worker, who nailed it on the head when she said that most cases it is a family problem, not just one or two kids. She didnt get much time to expanded on her thoughts. Too bad the show wasnt longer.
Richard and Reese were both scheduled, I believe, the rest were random or prescreened calls. I would have liked to have heard more of Richards' story but they were running out of time and shut him off. It seemed his position was not a failed staff member but more of a systemic problem at the place he went to, straight, where he saw system wide abuse condoned from the top down. I would be interested to know if the school has softened since he went or if this book will make a difference in adressing that place.
Reeses story didnt suprise me
Anonymous:
Please never use Straight and school in the same sentence, Thanks :exclaim:
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2006-02-18 04:42:00, TheWho wrote:
"
--- Quote ---EudoraI guess you don't have kids younger than your daughter, huh?
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Yes, I do.
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And did she have to attend seminars and group meetings as well? I can give you an earful about the role of younger brothers and sisters and how it effects family ties in the long run.
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Thanks for the links, I'll check it out.
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Enjoy!
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I think her name was Stephanie, the social worker, who nailed it on the head when she said that most cases it is a family problem, not just one or two kids. She didnt get much time to expanded on her thoughts. Too bad the show wasnt longer.
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Yeah, well, there are a couple of ways to spin that too. I think the LSWs and licensed psrinks have all the good intentions in the world when they recomend family counseling. However, if the organization to which the family turns for help is one of these cultish ones, that just means everybody joins the cult or leaves the family. Remember what Maia said about the Bacons? You'll get a more complete picture when you read the book. She actually went out and interviewed them in their home, got a good sense of who they are. These folks did all the right things, asked all the right questions and got taken for a ride anyway.
There's good advice about asking the right questions and checking these places out thoroughly, but there's just no substitute for good old fashioned common sense and healthy skepticism. I'd add one more item to Maia's 10 good questions; does the kid have normal access to communication w/ the outside world? If the answer is no, hang up, it's not a safe place. I don't care how pure the intentions of the people running it.
It's just damned foolish to isolate a kid among strangers and just trust them. In the real world, in the rare case when we legitimately need to limit a person's contact and communication (i.e. Charles Manson or Hannibal Lector) we go through an exhaustive adversarial process to make damned sure there is no less restrictive, less rash means of dealing with that singularly dangerous individual. None of these programs are qualified, or even interested in doing that.
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Richard and Reese were both scheduled, I believe, the rest were random or prescreened calls.
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I think they did a pretty good job of balancing the viewpoints. But you're right, there never seems to be enough time to finish this conversation. I would have liked to ask those program parents a few questions about how much contact they've had w/ their kids, how long their kids have been away, what the basis is for their belief that their kids are doing so well.
--- Quote --- I would have liked to have heard more of Richards' story but they were running out of time and shut him off.
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Oh, you'll love the book! She tells quite a bit about Rich in it.
--- Quote ---It seemed his position was not a failed staff member but more of a systemic problem at the place he went to, straight, where he saw system wide abuse condoned from the top down. I would be interested to know if the school has softened since he went or if this book will make a difference in adressing that place.
Reeses story didnt suprise me"
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Well, again, check out those links I posted, especially the ISAC site. One more, http://thestraights.com/
No, it hasn't "softened" in any significant ways. Once in awhile, people will come together and go all activist like and keep hounding the authorities to do their jobs. And the Programs will temporarily suspend things like motivating (that weird flapping thing they do) or beltlooping. But, as soon as the pressure is off (and the authorities are just pleased as punch to look away just as soon as activists quit pressuring them) it all comes back.
See, the cops, judges, religious fundies and other fear and hate mongers just love these "get tought" programs. Never mind that they're harmful and ineffective, it just feels so good. It's exactly the same mentality (by the same individuals, too!) that has us spending billions yearly, shredding our constitution, mucking around in the domestic affairs of foreign nations, all in a completely futile effort to control, by force of law, which drugs and how much of them any individual may consume. Never mind that it's expensive, harmful and completely ineffectual. It just feels so damned good to do something, and to suffer for it. If you try to shatter those illusions w/ a little fact, the proponants can get downright hostile.
But Straight and it's affiliates never were "schools" by any stretch. It's a slightly different model from ASR. The kids all go to a warehouse or similar facility all day long. At night, they go to the homes of families who have been drinking the kool aid for a number of months or years. You don't have any contact at all with anyone outside the cult for an arbitrary number of months or, sometimes, years till you attain 3rd phase and are allowed to attend work or school. While you're out in 'the world', you're still not permitted to have any significant relationships with anyone outside the cult. If you do, someone will find out (or it's best to assume so) and report you to staff and you lose it all, back on phase one, starting all over again.
This is one of those things that's just very difficult for most people to believe or understand. But it's been happening for 30 years, right in plain sight in populated areas. But it's true, I lived it and so have a lot of ppl around here.
That's what comes to my mind when the well intended social works and other helping professionals recomend "family involvement". It's a real nightmare. This particular family of cults took my native family from me when I was only a little kid. Aside from patching things up w/ my dad, who met me at least halfway in that effort, I never have gotten my family back. Probably never will, either.
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
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