Author Topic: Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*  (Read 21800 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2006, 08:24:00 AM »
A medical examiner involved in a boot camp death autopsy allowed his license to lapse and once signed a mistake-prone autopsy saying a woman had male genitalia.

BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER AND MARC CAPUTO [email protected]

Dr. Charles Siebert, who released a controversial autopsy in a teen's boot camp-related death, has been without a medical license for three weeks and recently issued two botched autopsy reports -- one of which listed a mother as having ''unremarkable'' testicles.

Siebert's medical license lapsed Jan. 31, and he's ''in violation'' of state law if he practiced medicine after that date, said a state health department spokeswoman, who was unable to elaborate on Siebert's case due to the Presidents' Day holiday.

Siebert appears to have worked ever since 14-year-old Martin Lee Anderson was kneed, choked and wrestled down by seven Panama City boot camp guards Jan. 6. Cause of death: sickle-cell trait, according to an autopsy report released last week by Siebert, who couldn't be reached for comment Monday.

That report, roundly panned by experts on the rare blood disorder that mostly affects blacks, outraged Martin's family members.
But it didn't shock Frances Terry, 57, as she watched the video of Martin's boot-camp altercation unfold on her television set in the small community of Blountstown.

`HE MESSED UP'
''He's a bad doctor. He messed up my daughter's autopsy and my husband's autopsy and I'll bet he messed up the autopsy of that poor boy,'' Terry said Wednesday as she sat next to Martin's mother in the offices of attorney Benjamin Crump.

``He said my daughter had testicles. She didn't. I washed her from the day she was born and, trust me, she didn't have testicles. He said my husband had no scars. He did. He had a seven-inch scar on his back that even a blind person could see.''
Some experts said Monday such errors are fireable offenses.

Terry's husband and daughter were killed by a massive tornado spun off by Hurricane Ivan on Sept. 15, 2004.

Terry said her daughter, Donna Reed, was 34 and had a child long before having her ovaries and uterus removed in major surgery to stop the pain from endometriosis, an organ ailment. Terry said her daughter's gallbladder and appendix were also removed in other surgeries.

Yet the autopsy signed by Siebert on Nov. 29, 2004, notes Donna Reed's three tattoos in depth as well as her ''smooth tan'' appendix, the gallbladder that's ''not distended,'' the ''uterus is not enlarged,'' and that the ``ovaries and fallopian tubes are unremarkable.''
But it was this sentence that really dealt a blow to Frances Terry: ``The prostate gland and testes are unremarkable.''

Also, her 55-year-old husband, James Terry, had a seven-inch scar running along his spine and a nearby four-inch scar. Terry, a truck driver, had back surgery after a load of roof trusses fell on him. But his autopsy, signed by Siebert, said Terry had no scars.

Frances Terry complained about her daughter's autopsy to Steve Meadows, the Panama City-based prosecutor of the six-county 14th Judicial Circuit where Siebert practices.
On Monday, Meadows, through deputy chief Joe Grammer, acknowledged the meeting and blamed the incident on ''transcription errors.'' Grammer said Siebert corrected the errors in a revised report.

CONFIDENCE IN SIEBERT
Grammer said he couldn't confirm the specifics of the allegations Terry made, but ''it probably can be confirmed the woman didn't have testicles.'' He said it was a ''fair statement'' to say that, ''transcription errors'' aside, the prosecutor's office has confidence in Siebert's work.

But Dr. Joseph Davis, retired medical examiner in Miami-Dade, said the questions aren't easy to dismiss. He said that although errors happen, even boilerplate mistakes in an autopsy report render the entire report questionable.
In the past, he said, some pathologists used ''machines'' or templates that allowed the examiner to simply fill in the blanks. ''I would not permit that in my office,'' he said. ``If it's true that he was coming forth with a female who had male gonads, that's not good.''
Broward County's former medical examiner was also surprised by the extent of the errors.
''It happens, but not very often,'' Dr. Ron Wright said. ``A few people do that sort of thing. They usually find different work.''

`I FIRED A GUY'
He added: ``I fired a guy over this. I fired more than one . . . Obviously, it looks really bad.''
The attorney for Martin's family, Crump, is not only questioning Siebert's skills and integrity. He's concerned with Kristin Schmidt, the nurse who stood by and rendered almost no aid as guards grappled and hit Martin for more than 20 minutes.
One mother of a boot camp detainee who witnessed the incident plans to address the news media today to describe how she feared for her son. Shauna Manning told The Miami Herald that Schmidt refused to believe her when she said her son couldn't perform all the camp's required exercises because he has asthma.

Manning said Schmidt told her: ''I don't believe you. He's just trying to get sympathy and get out of the program. That's what these kids do. They use medical issues to try to get out of the program.'' Schmidt couldn't be reached for comment Monday, and has refused comment in the past.

After Martin's death, Manning's son was transferred to a different facility to finish his sentence for burglary.  Martin's mother, Gina Jones, said her child was ''murdered'' for stealing his grandmother's car. She said Siebert's autopsy of her son was part of a ``coverup.''

''My baby died from kicks, punches, chokes, you name it,'' she said. ``My baby's nose was swollen; it was broken. My baby's bottom lip was cut, the face was scraped . . . He said no bruises? He said sickle-cell trait? That's a lie.''

Though Martin's autopsy was performed Jan. 6, the day the teen died, the four-page report was not signed by Siebert until Feb. 16, two weeks after his license became ''delinquent,'' according to state Department of Health records. Health department spokeswoman Thometta Cozart confirmed the license had lapsed and said that ``he is not to practice medicine in Florida.''

LICENSE PROBLEM
Dr. Zachariah P. Zachariah, director of cardiology at Holy Cross Hospital in Fort Lauderdale who served on Florida's Board of Medicine for eight years, said a doctor ``cannot practice medicine as soon as he finds out his license is delinquent; he has to cease and desist until he renews his license.''
While the possible punishments for practicing medicine with a lapsed license can vary, Zacharia said one thing is clear: ``That is grounds for discipline.''

Frances Terry said she has a few punishments in mind: ``He should lose his license, and never do something like this again. He should be slapped on both sides of his face for all he's done.''
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2006, 08:50:00 AM »
Terry said her daughter, Donna Reed, was 34 and had a child long before having her ovaries and uterus removed in major surgery to stop the pain from endometriosis, an organ ailment. Terry said her daughter's gallbladder and appendix were also removed in other surgeries.

Yet the autopsy signed by Siebert on Nov. 29, 2004, notes Donna Reed's three tattoos in depth as well as her ''smooth tan'' appendix, the gallbladder that's ''not distended,'' the ''uterus is not enlarged,'' and that the ``ovaries and fallopian tubes are unremarkable.''
But it was this sentence that really dealt a blow to Frances Terry: ``The prostate gland and testes are unremarkable.''


No, no problem with this doctor.  None at all.  :roll:

I hope to god people don't let go of this story.  It's such a good example of the industry as a whole and on so many particular levels.  There's the bootcamp and teen industry issue, civil rights, outright cover ups, incompetence and complete indifference and even outright disdain for "kids t'day".  It's all about damage control now.

This thing has teeth though.  I hope these few journalists that seem to really get it keep after this.
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2006, 09:16:00 AM »
Interesting........


Examiner denies calling autopsy request `unusual'

The man who performed Martin Lee Anderson's autopsy apparently thought it was 'highly unusual' to do so at first, but now denies he said that. The teen's family says it's evidence of a coverup.


BY MARC CAPUTO AND CAROL MARBIN MILLER [email protected]

Before he issued a controversial autopsy report on Martin Lee Anderson, Bay County's chief medical examiner said it was ''highly unusual'' that the local sheriff requested him to perform the procedure in the first place because the death did not occur in his county, according to a state report.

Dr. Charles Siebert, though, went ahead with the autopsy and declared that the 14-year-old died as a result of complications from a common genetic condition -- a finding that experts have roundly panned -- and not the kicks, punches and takedowns from the Bay sheriff's own boot camp guards Jan. 5.

Siebert stands by his report, and now denies saying the request was ''highly unusual'' because Martin died in a hospital in neighboring Escambia County, and not in Bay.

The phrase was the only thing put in quotation marks in a Jan. 9 memorandum written by Dr. Shairi Turner, chief medical director of the state's Department of Juvenile Justice. Turner's five-page report is laden with medical-jargon bullet points from her review of documents and her interviews of medical professionals, including Siebert, who came into contact with Martin.

Turner, too, is standing by her memo that quotes Siebert.

''She's confident in that quote. She wrote it down as they were talking,'' said Cynthia Lorenzo, spokeswoman for the DJJ, which oversees the Bay Boot Camp run by the sheriff in Panama City.

But forensic investigator Kelsey Welch, a spokeswoman for Siebert, disagreed.

''He has been misquoted. He said that is very common,'' she said, but could provide no other examples.

Other medical examiners say it's rare -- not unprecedented -- to switch the performance of an autopsy from the jurisdiction in which the death occurred to another when law enforcement agencies request it for convenience. But the controversy is being viewed one way by supporters of Martin's family: as a coverup.

'It's home cookin' '' said Benjamin Crump, lawyer for Martin's family. 'It's more evidence that this is a coverup. As early as Jan. 9, Siebert is wondering: `Why is it brought to me?' And now he's saying he's being misquoted.''

Crump said Martin should have had an autopsy in Escambia County, where he died at Pensacola's Sacred Heart Hospital. The family is also concerned about ties between the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and thesheriff's office. FDLE Commissioner Guy Tunnell was Bay's sheriff and founded the boot camp. An FDLE spokesman said it's conducting a fair probe.
Jeff Martin, chief investigator for Escambia's medical examiner, said his agency didn't perform Martin's autopsy ''as a courtesy'' to its Bay counterparts and FDLE.

''It's not uncommon to change jurisdiction,'' said Martin, but noted that in his two years in the office he had never seen such a request.
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2006, 09:21:00 AM »
Sound familiar to anyone?



One mother of a boot camp detainee who witnessed the incident plans to address the news media today to describe how she feared for her son. Shauna Manning told The Miami Herald that Schmidt refused to believe her when she said her son couldn't perform all the camp's required exercises because he has asthma.

Manning said Schmidt told her: ''I don't believe you. He's just trying to get sympathy and get out of the program. That's what these kids do. They use medical issues to try to get out of the program.'' Schmidt couldn't be reached for comment Monday, and has refused comment in the past
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Offline Antigen

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2006, 07:41:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-21 06:16:00, Anonymous wrote:


The phrase was the only thing put in quotation marks in a Jan. 9 memorandum written by Dr. Shairi Turner, chief medical director of the state's Department of Juvenile Justice. Turner's five-page report is laden with medical-jargon bullet points from her review of documents and her interviews of medical professionals, including Siebert, who came into contact with Martin.

That's a very unusual name, isn't it; Shairi Turner?

http://www.cmwf.org/fellows/fellows_sho ... _id=224316

I knew a girl by that name, well phonetically anyway. Never have been able to find her, but then I was spelling it differently. If this is the woman I knew 23 or so years ago, that is NOT her picture!

If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2006, 09:49:00 PM »
Quote
''I don't believe you. He's just trying to get sympathy and get out of the program. That's what these kids do.


How many of these kids who have died in programs have written home about the horrible conditions and/or suicidal feelings? I've seen a few and I'm not even keeping track.  :eek:
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Offline nite owl

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2006, 11:18:00 PM »
I've been posting on this topic on a Panama City Newspaper chat area. You really need to read what these people are saying there. Nine to one are in favor of the treatment that Martin recieved.

Check it out - these people really need an education....

http://bb.emeraldcoast.com/ecforum/viewtopic.php?t=435


EXAMPLE:
Looking at the tape and being formerly (a long time ago) employed at the Boot Camp I see nothing wrong with what I saw. Three straight arm take downs, one knee strike and two events where a radial arm strike was used. We were not there, we do not know what that young man was doing, saying or anything else. This is monday morning quarterbacking at its finest. I know most of the DIs in that video and can assure you that there is a lot of experiance in that crowd. Those guys would not hurt a child if their life depended on it, but they will protect themselves. If someone had the balls to expose it you might find that this young "angel" was a local member of the "Bloods" and was known to carry a gun when confronted by law enforcement. Being listed in state databases as a gang member might be a bad thing, has anyone checked this angle? This guy was not an angel and his family is far from it. We will leave how I know this a secret, but I do. How come "Daddy" just showed up? What about that loudmouth Senator from Miami. Guess nothing go's on down there for her to run her mouth and sport her gaudy hats about. This is not about race, this is about a criminal going into the system and his body could not take it. JMHO[ This Message was edited by: nite owl on 2006-02-21 20:21 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2006, 11:48:00 PM »
concerned citizen in Panama City wrote:

OK? The medical examiners report is in and the information shows no wrong-doing on the part of the Boot Camp people. (I know there will be those who say there is some kind of cover-up going on and they will be waiting for the next review of this situation and the next?.) I?m sure there are those who will view the tape and disagree with the findings also. I am writing this before viewing the controversial tape. I can tell you I believe it was the right decision to release the findings before the tape.

My observations/comments on this situation:

1. The death, although unfortunate, was not brought on directly by the boot camp.
2. The death was the direct result of this person committing a crime(and being sent to boot camp).(i.e. if he wouldn?t have committed the crime, he wouldn?t have died at the boot camp)
3. The death was a direct result of the parent(s)/family not bringing up this person properly. How can I say this??? What possesses a kid to steal a car/someone else?s property? This couldn?t have been the first incident of bad behavior. I wish I could check the court records for juveniles but I can?t. I?m sure the judge knew when the sentence to boot camp was made.
4. Although some of us may not like the concept of ?Boot Camp? for young criminals, it does exist and does serve a purpose.
5. Some make the point that the grandmother didn?t want to press charges (which somehow exonerates the family from being part of the problem???) but this is not a civil matter. This is a criminal matter and is the State vs. the accused and therefore the State gets to decide if they want to prosecute or not.
6. While I haven?t reviewed the tape, I suspect that the level of ?violence? seen on it will be no worse than a high school football game. I also suspect that high school football players would end up with even more bumps and bruises after a game than this kid did.
7. I also suspect that the treatment he received was no different than if he would have been a military recruit going through that training program ? that?s why they call it Boot Camp!
8. While some would like to believe the boot camp personnel knocked this kid dead on the spot, he didn?t die until 15 hours later.
9. It would be interesting to know if the ?sickle cell trait? was diagnosed beforehand and if so, who knew about it.
10. People have a higher risk of dying or injury when their behavior is risky?e.g. race car drivers, criminals, athletes, pilots and therefore bear some responsibility for their choice.
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2006, 11:57:00 PM »
Wonder if the reaction would have been different had it been a young white kid from the suburbs.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2006, 12:02:00 AM »
***Those guys would not hurt a child if their life depended on it, but they will protect themselves.

From 'verbal' asault, if that were the case, cause he certainly wan't putting up a fight.
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2006, 12:09:00 AM »
Quote

My observations/comments on this situation:

Ok, you're either a veteran troll, or maybe just a veteran jackass?


Quote
1. The death, although unfortunate, was not brought on directly by the boot camp.

2. The death was the direct result of this person committing a crime(and being sent to boot camp).(i.e. if he wouldn�t have committed the crime, he wouldn�t have died at the boot camp)

3. The death was a direct result of the parent(s)/family not bringing up this person properly. How can I say this??? What possesses a kid to steal a car/someone else�s property? This couldn�t have been the first incident of bad behavior. I wish I could check the court records for juveniles but I can�t. I�m sure the judge knew when the sentence to boot camp was made.

4. Although some of us may not like the concept of �Boot Camp� for young criminals, it does exist and does serve a purpose.

5. Some make the point that the grandmother didn�t want to press charges (which somehow exonerates the family from being part of the problem???) but this is not a civil matter. This is a criminal matter and is the State vs. the accused and therefore the State gets to decide if they want to prosecute or not.

6. While I haven�t reviewed the tape, I suspect that the level of �violence� seen on it will be no worse than a high school football game. I also suspect that high school football players would end up with even more bumps and bruises after a game than this kid did.

7. I also suspect that the treatment he received was no different than if he would have been a military recruit going through that training program � that�s why they call it Boot Camp!

8. While some would like to believe the boot camp personnel knocked this kid dead on the spot, he didn�t die until 15 hours later.

9. It would be interesting to know if the �sickle cell trait� was diagnosed beforehand and if so, who knew about it.

10. People have a higher risk of dying or injury when their behavior is risky�e.g. race car drivers, criminals, athletes, pilots and therefore bear some responsibility for their choice.



"


I'm not even going to ask you about your so-called points.  

You mean to tell me, that if this kid committed his "crime" - the one of joyriding in his grandmother's car  (Hey, grandparents, help me out here - didn't you guys do that shit to goof off when you were kids?) - for which his granmother - the victim in the case did not press charges - that if he were to be released to the custody of his own guardian, that he would have been dead within three hours?

If that's your story, then you make me sicker than a rich, chocolately Ovaltine commercial.

Freedom has a thousand charms to show, That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1840300051/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> William Cowper, a British Christian poet & hymn writer (18th century)

[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2006-02-21 21:11 ]
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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2006, 09:17:00 AM »
Helena, I'm pretty sure the anon posting that borrowed it from the other site they were describing. I assume this much because of the introductory line in the post.
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2006, 09:27:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-21 21:09:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:

"
Quote



My observations/comments on this situation:




Ok, you're either a veteran troll, or maybe just a veteran jackass?





Quote
1. The death, although unfortunate, was not brought on directly by the boot camp.



2. The death was the direct result of this person committing a crime(and being sent to boot camp).(i.e. if he wouldn�t have committed the crime, he wouldn�t have died at the boot camp)



3. The death was a direct result of the parent(s)/family not bringing up this person properly. How can I say this??? What possesses a kid to steal a car/someone else�s property? This couldn�t have been the first incident of bad behavior. I wish I could check the court records for juveniles but I can�t. I�m sure the judge knew when the sentence to boot camp was made.



4. Although some of us may not like the concept of �Boot Camp�for young criminals, it does exist and does serve a purpose.



5. Some make the point that the grandmother didn�t want to press charges (which somehow exonerates the family from being part of the problem???) but this is not a civil matter. This is a criminal matter and is the State vs. the accused and therefore the State gets to decide if they want to prosecute or not.



6. While I haven�t reviewed the tape, I suspect that the level of �violence�seen on it will be no worse than a high school football game. I also suspect that high school football players would end up with even more bumps and bruises after a game than this kid did.



7. I also suspect that the treatment he received was no different than if he would have been a military recruit going through that training program �that�s why they call it Boot Camp!



8. While some would like to believe the boot camp personnel knocked this kid dead on the spot, he didn�t die until 15 hours later.



9. It would be interesting to know if the �sickle cell trait�was diagnosed beforehand and if so, who knew about it.



10. People have a higher risk of dying or injury when their behavior is risky�e.g. race car drivers, criminals, athletes, pilots and therefore bear some responsibility for their choice.







"




I'm not even going to ask you about your so-called points.  



You mean to tell me, that if this kid committed his "crime" - the one of joyriding in his grandmother's car  (Hey, grandparents, help me out here - didn't you guys do that shit to goof off when you were kids?) - for which his granmother - the victim in the case did not press charges - that if he were to be released to the custody of his own guardian, that he would have been dead within three hours?



If that's your story, then you make me sicker than a rich, chocolately Ovaltine commercial.

Freedom has a thousand charms to show, That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1840300051/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> William Cowper, a British Christian poet & hymn writer (18th century)

[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2006-02-21 21:11 ]"


Well,you got that right.You sho...got that right!
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Offline Anonymous

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2006, 09:29:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-21 21:09:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:

If that's your story, then you make me sicker than a rich, chocolately Ovaltine commercial


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
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Offline AtomicAnt

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Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2006, 01:35:00 AM »
Quote

1. The death, although unfortunate, was not brought on directly by the boot camp.

2. The death was the direct result of this person committing a crime(and being sent to boot camp).(i.e. if he wouldn?t have committed the crime, he wouldn?t have died at the boot camp)

3. The death was a direct result of the parent(s)/family not bringing up this person properly. How can I say this??? What possesses a kid to steal a car/someone else?s property? This couldn?t have been the first incident of bad behavior. I wish I could check the court records for juveniles but I can?t. I?m sure the judge knew when the sentence to boot camp was made.
Someone needs a course in logic. This is crap. This is like blaming the passenger of a cab for an accident because the cab would not have been there if the passenger hadn't hired it. This teen did not invite his own death in any way. He was entrusted into the care of adults who did not properly care for him. They were paid to care for him. His crimes are irrevelent.

Quote

4. Although some of us may not like the concept of ?Boot Camp? for young criminals, it does exist and does serve a purpose.
The purpose is monetary and political and has nothing to do with helping teens. The recidivsm rate is higher than traditional detention and so there is no valid reason for their existence.

Quote

5. Some make the point that the grandmother didn?t want to press charges (which somehow exonerates the family from being part of the problem???) but this is not a civil matter. This is a criminal matter and is the State vs. the accused and therefore the State gets to decide if they want to prosecute or not.
You are missing the point. The opinion is that perhaps the State should have stayed out of it (intervention is not mandatory) and let the family handle it.

Quote

6. While I haven?t reviewed the tape, I suspect that the level of ?violence? seen on it will be no worse than a high school football game. I also suspect that high school football players would end up with even more bumps and bruises after a game than this kid did.
Are you suggesting that the legistators that viewed it and described it as horrifyng would feel the same about a football game? Are you really this stupid or just baiting us?

Quote

7. I also suspect that the treatment he received was no different than if he would have been a military recruit going through that training program ? that?s why they call it Boot Camp!
Your ignorance on teen boot camps is appalling. They would never dare treat military recruits like they treat these kids. There is no evidence to suggest that military boot camp is capable of rehabilitating anyone and the military does not use boot camps for this purpose. Other than the name, there is no comparison and you insult the military by suggesting there is.

Quote

8. While some would like to believe the boot camp personnel knocked this kid dead on the spot, he didn?t die until 15 hours later.
Totally irrevelant. If you shoot someone and it takes 15 hours for them to die, you are still guilty of murder.

Quote

9. It would be interesting to know if the ?sickle cell trait? was diagnosed beforehand and if so, who knew about it.
Experts and doctors from around the country have stated the coroner's finding that sickle cell trait caused this death is at the least dubious and at most impossible.

Quote

10. People have a higher risk of dying or injury when their behavior is risky?e.g. race car drivers, criminals, athletes, pilots and therefore bear some responsibility for their choice.

"

The boy's behavior was no longer his choice. Once again, he was placed in the care of adults who became responsible for his wellbeing. They beat him. Get it? They beat him. They beat a child. I don't know what podunk shit hole (Florida?) you are living in, but where I live hitting children is against the law. They should be arrested for the beating and charged with child abuse and assault. Let's throw in reckless endangerment. And of course, possibly murder.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »