Did You Receive a Psychiatric Evaluation at HLA?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-07 22:31:00, RobertBruce wrote:

"Truth, first youre assuming you know who we are. Second youre assuming you are familiar with all of our backrounds. I can assure I recieved no testing before or during my placement at HLA."

I am assuming nothing.  I was referring to the people that I absolutely know who they are because they have either said so straight out, or they have said things that have clearly identified who they are.  Based on what you have said in the past, you were here at a time when HLA did not employee a full time tester, so I would not even think of arguing that point with you.  I imagine many people during your time here did not receive testing unless it came from an outside source, if at all.

[HLA Truth]

Sorry.  Forgot to log in.  :wstupid:

[RobertBruce]

During a time?

Isnt that the case for the majority of the time HLA has been open?

Only recently (according to you) has there even been testing, prior to that...nothing.

[HLA Truth]

On 2006-02-08 07:26:00, RobertBruce wrote:

"During a time?



Isnt that the case for the majority of the time HLA has been open?



Only recently (according to you) has there even been testing, prior to that...nothing. "

You are correct.  Mostly.  There was some testing done, but not to the extent that it is done now.  I would say that it is now a very big part of the work we do.  In the past it was done on more of an as needed basis.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-02-07 15:38:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

For instance, if a student called a teacher a "fucking bitch" because the teacher assigned an essay for homework. According to you, what is the most effective way of handling that?

First, I'd say that one needs to "catch the kid being good."  Praise and positive reinforcement are the best way to elicit desired behaviors.



Second, since your program is really all about behavior modification, why not listen to the experts on BM if you're going to employ it at your facility (not my recommendation)?  I would say that after working in the BM field for ten years or more, you would be educated to one of the basic tenets of BM theory:  The most effective, fastest, longest lasting way to extinguish any behavior is to ignore it.



That's not me saying it, that's the behaviorists.  Dozens upon dozens of clinical trials have borne this out.  



Conversely, it has been shown that punishment is only mildly effective at extinguishing behavior and its results only last as long as the punishment is applied consistently.



I also would add that even intermittent reinforcement of desired behavior is far more effective at producing desired behavior than punishment, even rigidly consistent, ever could be.  



So, when punishment, even if applied with complete consistency (impossible outside of the laboratory) has only weak, fleeting results and positive reinforcement, even when applied only intermittently (obviously applies to the "real world" treatment environment), is proven lasting and effective, WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU USE IT?
"

[RobertBruce]

On 2006-02-08 07:39:00, HLA Truth wrote:

You are correct.  Mostly.  There was some testing done, but not to the extent that it is done now.  I would say that it is now a very big part of the work we do.  In the past it was done on more of an as needed basis."

So then might there have been students who were diagnosed as having ODD who in fact did not?[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-02-08 12:48 ]

[HLA Truth]

That is certainly possible.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-02-07 15:38:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

For instance, if a student called a teacher a "fucking bitch" because the teacher assigned an essay for homework. According to you, what is the most effective way of handling that?

First, I'd say that one needs to "catch the kid being good."  Praise and positive reinforcement are the best way to elicit desired behaviors.



Second, since your program is really all about behavior modification, why not listen to the experts on BM if you're going to employ it at your facility (not my recommendation)?  I would say that after working in the BM field for ten years or more, you would be educated to one of the basic tenets of BM theory:  The most effective, fastest, longest lasting way to extinguish any behavior is to ignore it.



That's not me saying it, that's the behaviorists.  Dozens upon dozens of clinical trials have borne this out.  



Conversely, it has been shown that punishment is only mildly effective at extinguishing behavior and its results only last as long as the punishment is applied consistently.



I also would add that even intermittent reinforcement of desired behavior is far more effective at producing desired behavior than punishment, even rigidly consistent, ever could be.  



So, when punishment, even if applied with complete consistency (impossible outside of the laboratory) has only weak, fleeting results and positive reinforcement, even when applied only intermittently (obviously applies to the "real world" treatment environment), is proven lasting and effective, WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU USE IT?
"

Truth, if punishment is widely known not to produce desired behavior, why do you rely almost exclusively on it to shape behavior?

Not only are you applying the behavioral model, which is not the most effective method, you apply it in the least effective way.  ::

[HLA Truth]

I disagree with you.  Behavior modification is only a part of the program.  There is MUCH more to HLA than behavior mod.  To say that HLA is only a behavior mod program is a gross distortion of the facts.

[RobertBruce]

Then please relay the facts. Youve been avoiding giving straight answers on anything, heres your chance.

Also since you agree that many students may have been misdiagnosed at HLA should they have been there at all?

[odie]

On 2006-02-08 13:06:00, HLA Truth wrote:

"I disagree with you.  Behavior modification is only a part of the program.  There is MUCH more to HLA than behavior mod.  To say that HLA is only a behavior mod program is a gross distortion of the facts."

No actually that isn't how behavior modification works. You can't use it sometimes and other times not. Any adolescent setting that uses behavior modification as a means of shaping behavior will have disastrous results when being administered by people not completely educated in this modality of treatment. This is where many programs end up screwing the kids up more then when they first got there. I have quite a bit of experience in this area and have come to a realization that better results come from a cognitive behavioral approach when working with kids. Using a kid's strengths to build him up will have much better results then to have them feeling worse and sometimes even hopeless because they are punished repeatedly for making menial bad judgements.

You should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own person and property, as long as you don't physically harm the person or property of a nonconsenting other.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0931580587/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Peter McWilliams - Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do

[Troll Control]

On 2006-02-08 13:06:00, HLA Truth wrote:

"I disagree with you.  Behavior modification is only a part of the program.  There is MUCH more to HLA than behavior mod.  To say that HLA is only a behavior mod program is a gross distortion of the facts."

Odie is spot on in his comments.  Behavior Mod is not a "part time" method.  It must be applied full time to have any effect (even though it is comparatively ineffective to other methods).  It simply won't work on a part time basis, as the result is what I like to call "harshness balanced with inconsistency."

Seriously, Truth, are you going to sit there and try to say that punishment is not the biggest counseling tool used at HLA?  Come on, dude.  Anyone who ever went there or worked there knows that it is.

It is true that there is more to HLA's "program."  There are LGAT "workshops" as well.  These LGAT sessions are proven to be damaging to the developing mind and were discredited by research over twenty years ago.  The ONLY places still using them are places like HLA and organized cults.  They simply have NO PLACE in mental health treatment.

Behavior Mod, level system, LGAT workshops, confrontational "peer therapy" and a hefty dose of punishment.  That's it in a nutshell.  Call it what you like, but it doesn't change a thing.

Truth, I have no doubt but that you feel like what you all do there is good for kids.  The problem is that you're the only ones who feel that way.  Programs like yours have been thoroughly debunked.  Your results suck.  

You take kids that need help that you are not capable of delivering and exacerbate their problems.  You take credit for "successes" that are actually the natural maturation process.  You blame your huge amount of "failures" on the kids or their parents.  You misrepresent the truth and outright lie to prospective marks.  Your own staff tells the kids to "play the game" so they can go home.  Who do you think you're kidding?

[Troll Control]

On 2006-02-08 13:06:00, HLA Truth wrote:

"I disagree with you.  Behavior modification is only a part of the program.  There is MUCH more to HLA than behavior mod.  To say that HLA is only a behavior mod program is a gross distortion of the facts."

Ur F.O.S. buddy.  "Therapy" doesn't exist at HLA.  There's only "Bait and Punish" and "Punish and Punish."

[Son Of Serbia]

On 2006-02-09 14:32:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Ur F.O.S. buddy.  "Therapy" doesn't exist at HLA.  There's only "Bait and Punish" and "Punish and Punish.""

That seems to be the model for all of the Behavior Modification Scam Shacks. I wasn't at HLA personally, but I knew the founders Rudy & Jill Bentz from their days at Cedu RS.  Neither of them are qualified to give therapy to anyone.  The Bentz's are in fact two of the most twisted and sadistic people I've ever known.  As Cedu staff, they both revelled in degrading students, and admonishing them with excessive and unfair punishments, especially Rudy.

I have it on good authority that Rudy considered himself a failure in just about every  aspect of his life,cedu being the sole exception.  Therefore, it's no wonder why Rudy got off on torturing kids so much (especially males). It was the perfect release for his neverending frustration.  Jill on the other hand was adversely tough on girls.  To Jill they were all "cum guzzling whores".  She yelled at the boys some too, but for the most part. she was more interested in feeling us up (Jill grabbed my shit on numerous occassions.) I guess Rudy's libido failed to meet Jill's expectations (probably another thing he was pissed off about).

Anyways, I have no doubt that HLA is every bit as aweful and abusive as you all make it sound.

.  [ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2006-02-13 14:40 ]

[SHH]

Rudy and Jill were fired about a year and a half or 2 years after HLA was opened. They havent been there in a very long time. Not very many people liked them while they were there.