The Simpsons

[Anonymous]

Anyone see tonights Simpson episode where Bart is sent to a wilderness program?  :lol:

[Nihilanthic]

"This cant be legal!"

"its legal enough"

Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0300001479/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Ben Franklin Letter to M. Leroy, 1789.

[Jeff_Berryman]

I saw the Simpsons episode, and about two weeks ago I saw an episode of Ghost Whisperer which also portrayed BM programs in a very negative light.  Whoever wrote the script knew about escort services, late night abductions, and a lot of other stuff.  I suspect that Hollywood is getting more and more aware of our issues.  

This may be due to feedback from program alumni over Brat Camp, or people in Hollywood researching BM programs with an eye toward copycatting Brat Camp.  

It may be due to some Hollywood insider - perhaps a program alumnus - personally contacting lots and lots of people.  In any event, I have high hopes for the future.

In the 1970s a movie called Born Innocent with Linda Blair delivered a searing indictment of the public sector juvenile system.  

I strongly suspect that movies or documentaries are brewing now that will do the same to the private sector.  Once public awareness gets raised to a certain point, things will snowball.  Let's hope the day is not far off.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-01-30 19:00:00, Jeff_Berryman wrote:

"I saw the Simpsons episode, and about two weeks ago I saw an episode of Ghost Whisperer which also portrayed BM programs in a very negative light.  Whoever wrote the script knew about escort services, late night abductions, and a lot of other stuff.  I suspect that Hollywood is getting more and more aware of our issues.  



This may be due to feedback from program alumni over Brat Camp, or people in Hollywood researching BM programs with an eye toward copycatting Brat Camp.  



It may be due to some Hollywood insider - perhaps a program alumnus - personally contacting lots and lots of people.  In any event, I have high hopes for the future.



In the 1970s a movie called Born Innocent with Linda Blair delivered a searing indictment of the public sector juvenile system.  



I strongly suspect that movies or documentaries are brewing now that will do the same to the private sector.  Once public awareness gets raised to a certain point, things will snowball.  Let's hope the day is not far off.  



"

Lets hope that coincides with you finding a source of income thats not named $ue $cheff or anyone who sends kids to programs with $heryl $udweeks  :flame:

The Internet is now safe for free speech.
-- Christopher A. Hansen on the overturning of the Communications Decency Act

[CCM girl 1989]

On 2006-01-30 19:00:00, Jeff_Berryman wrote:

"I saw the Simpsons episode, and about two weeks ago I saw an episode of Ghost Whisperer which also portrayed BM programs in a very negative light.  Whoever wrote the script knew about escort services, late night abductions, and a lot of other stuff.  I suspect that Hollywood is getting more and more aware of our issues.  



This may be due to feedback from program alumni over Brat Camp, or people in Hollywood researching BM programs with an eye toward copycatting Brat Camp.  



It may be due to some Hollywood insider - perhaps a program alumnus - personally contacting lots and lots of people.  In any event, I have high hopes for the future.



In the 1970s a movie called Born Innocent with Linda Blair delivered a searing indictment of the public sector juvenile system.  



I strongly suspect that movies or documentaries are brewing now that will do the same to the private sector.  Once public awareness gets raised to a certain point, things will snowball.  Let's hope the day is not far off.  



"

Like I said 4 months ago..........and I know it pissed some people off...........I am looking forward to the day, when I get to sit back, enjoy a bowl of popcorn, and watch WWASPS and other programs like it go down!

It's about fricken time! See, if they were all as smart as they think they are (owners of WWASPS) they'd pass the hot potatoe, and quick!

I'm not talking about just transfering it to other family members. The government will come down, and hard. The only reason why they've allowed themselves to be paid off by WWASPS, and turn a blind eye, is because there hasn't been enough pressure on them to do something about this fucked up situation.

With all this media attention, and movies being made, the public will catch on, and it'll become hotter then the O.J. / Scott Peterson trials put together.

I look forward to these guys getting what's coming to them.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-01-31 08:21:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"

On 2006-01-30 19:00:00, Jeff_Berryman wrote:


"I saw the Simpsons episode, and about two weeks ago I saw an episode of Ghost Whisperer which also portrayed BM programs in a very negative light.  Whoever wrote the script knew about escort services, late night abductions, and a lot of other stuff.  I suspect that Hollywood is getting more and more aware of our issues.  





This may be due to feedback from program alumni over Brat Camp, or people in Hollywood researching BM programs with an eye toward copycatting Brat Camp.  





It may be due to some Hollywood insider - perhaps a program alumnus - personally contacting lots and lots of people.  In any event, I have high hopes for the future.





In the 1970s a movie called Born Innocent with Linda Blair delivered a searing indictment of the public sector juvenile system.  





I strongly suspect that movies or documentaries are brewing now that will do the same to the private sector.  Once public awareness gets raised to a certain point, things will snowball.  Let's hope the day is not far off.  





"

Like I said 4 months ago..........and I know it pissed some people off...........I am looking forward to the day, when I get to sit back, enjoy a bowl of popcorn, and watch WWASPS and other programs like it go down!



It's about fricken time! See, if they were all as smart as they think they are (owners of WWASPS) they'd pass the hot potatoe, and quick!



I'm not talking about just transfering it to other family members. The government will come down, and hard. The only reason why they've allowed themselves to be paid off by WWASPS, and turn a blind eye, is because there hasn't been enough pressure on them to do something about this fucked up situation.



With all this media attention, and movies being made, the public will catch on, and it'll become hotter then the O.J. / Scott Peterson trials put together.



I look forward to these guys getting what's coming to them. "

If Bush's habit of cutting all responsibility from himself when his cronies get caught fucking up and then making them a point of how moral and just he is any indication, when word of this gets out expect a instant 180° on the industry.

He sure as hell swooped down on Enron, Michael Brown, Abramoff... etc.

However, thats the thing - nobodys aware of it yet and everyone seems skittish to do it first. But, hey, as much as people have spewed rhetoric about protecting kids and punishing child abusers over the past several months, theyve painted themselves into a corner with regards of how to handle this little issue, unless the GOP starts pulling more of its "no blame game" bullshit - their reply for when THEY have to be held accountable  :roll:

On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

[BuzzKill]

Hey Niles -
Jeff aint such a bad guy ya know. He often has very insightful ideas and a lot of knowledge. If you go beating him over the head with scheff shit every time he comments, he may decide commenting aint worth the bother. And that would be our loss.
So He has been mislead - what is unusual about that? Most of us have been. In fact, I feel safe saying we all have been - at some point, by someone.
He may come to understand that someday if he hasn't already. But lobbing Sue bombs every time he posts, really seems counter productive.

[Nihilanthic]

Why not COME CLEAN ABOUT IT? Admit it and make good on it. "Lets not blame" leaves nobody accountable except the children being "Accountable" to the adults having much harsher standards for their than themselves.

Oh, and guess what? Sue has to be held accountable too.

Regardless, there is no excuse for Jeff being on fornits and being so obvlivious to this. Hes either been brainwashed (I doubt sue is capable of that) bought off or somehow had a giant brainfart. I guess the wwasps vs pure discovery and the whole "WHITMORE" thing must have slipped his mind.  :roll:

EXCUSE ME for wanting some reasonable accountability!

I think what makes stepcraft survivors different is that we have participated in the Asch Experiment writ large, and know what we (and others)are capable of in that situation.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7711&forum=8&start=42#157103' target='_new'>Johnny G.

[Antigen]

No, do tell!

God is inconceivable, immortality is unbelievable, but duty is peremptory and absolute.
--George Eliot, author

[BuzzKill]

Hi Niles - I get all that. Really.
I am greatly disappointed in a lot of people's response to the "Whitmore" thing - Jeff included.
Couldn't help but notice he never sent out a single news article, or call to action, concerning Whitmore - despite the fact this is mostly what he does - and if it had not been a "PURE" program, he would most certainly have done so.
Possibly, he is afraid of Susan. He has seen how vicious she became with ISAC. He could be very vulnerable to attack if he angered her.
I am disappointed at the over all reaction (or lack there of) from the whole bunch. I feel the "Trekkers" All ought to be holding Susan accountable. The hypocrisy of ignoring her actions in regard to Whitmore - as well as ignoring her attack on ISAC - is deplorable. The argument that there are bigger fish to fry - and the "Whitmore thing" is just a distraction is ridiculous. The Whitmore families have very credible accounts of maltreatment and the defense used against them is identical to the arguments 'the bigger fish' makes against the Trekkers. How they can ignore this is truly beyond me.
But, pouncing on a man every time he post something, isn't going to change anything, except possibly drive him to quite posting. And in Jeff's case - that could well be a loss of good info and insight.

[Nihilanthic]

There is not a god damn thing hes said that someone else cant find out anyway (clandestine or otherwise) and any insight he has virtually anyone else here could come up with anwyay  :flame:

Wanna shut me up? Tell him to stop being Sue's lacky and take the PURE colored goggles off of his face and see whats going on!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THIS! AT ALL!!!!  

The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective.




--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958

[BuzzKill]

I don't want to shut you up Niles.

Not only am I sharp enough to know the attempt would be pointless (not that the dullest dullard couldn't figure that out) I really don't care one way or the other. Jabber on, if it makes you happy.

I was only attempting to point out something that might not have occurred to you. If you disagree; or, if you agree, but don't give a ratts ass - I'm OK with that.

As for excuses (reasons) they can be legitimate and understandable, or week and irrational - but it is worth taking a look at them, what ever they are.

You can't expect to correct any wrong without understanding the hows and whys that bring it about.

The "reasons" are often muli-faceted, and some important ones may be overlooked altogether, by those who concentrate to much on one facet.

As for the "kids" - I really don't think you'll find a parent more supportive of the "Kids" than this one - but this doesn't absolve them from some responsibility for the situation.

Many are responsible for making one foolish decision after another, that would drive any concerned parent to desperate measures.
Many continue to do so, even after warnings that desperate measure are about to be taken.

Societal pressure also plays a roll. Parents are held responsible for the actions of their kids. Parents are expected to hold some measure of control, even over the most defiant and obstinate teen. When the usual measures have no effect - parents who can, will turn to more desperate measures.

But of corse - the parents ought to be doing better homework - and they ought to pay more attention to the red flags to often so easily ignored.

The whole idea of Tuff Love (as it has come to be demonstrated in these programs) needs to be discredited - and thankfully - slowly but surely, this seems to be taking place.

Which brings us back to Jeff's original post - one I found interesting, and hopeful, and would regret having missed, for a lack of Jeff.

I do think you are too quick to dismiss good people, simply b/c they aren't perfect.

[Nihilanthic]

I do think you are too quick to dismiss good people, simply b/c they aren't perfect.

Hes working for someone who shipped off kids to whitmore while it was widely known on fornits what was going on - and SUSPICION ALONE IS ENOUGH OF A REASON TO NOT SEND THEM THERE!

You are so full of excuses, and now youre expanding into hyperbole and strawmen. I dont want perfection. Im not perfect. But what he did and is doing is bullshit, what $ue $cheff is doing is bullshit, and you having nothing but excuses for yourself and everyone else is bullshit, Karen.

Too bad you weren't so forgiving of this BEFORE you heard of ALA.

The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921

[Anonymous]

Niles is a cool cat, give him a fuckin' break already, man.

[BuzzKill]

Niles - why do you think Jeff worked for Susan?
Worked, as in, for pay?

Far as I know - no such thing ever took place.
Several of the Trekkers had a habit of referring parents to PURE, but there was no cash exchanged. Not from Sue to any of the Trekkers, anyway.

Sue always told us PURE didn't make any money.

The contributions the programs paid covered the cost of operation, but that was all.

Not true as it turns out - but that is the story given out to the Trekkers, and none knew any different until the trial.

None of the Trekkers worked for PURE (as in for money)except Susan - and that is the truth.

Further more - none of us (us, as in Fornits folk)know weather or not any of the Trekkers are still referring parents to PURE. In light of current events, I certainly hope not - because there would indeed be no excuse for it.
If so,there will then be plenty to discuss.
And if so, it will eventually come to light.

For now, I maintain Jeff is a good dude, who is as much a victim of Susan's manipulations as any of us. And, maybe he now knows it; Or, maybe he never will. We don't know, 'cause he aint talkin. He may have very good reason for not talkin. Or maybe not. We don't know. But in any event *I feel* there is no need to beat him over the head with it, every time he posts. Thought maybe if you thought about it, you might agree.

I was wrong.

Aint the first time, and won't be the last.