Author Topic: Hamas Palestine  (Read 3284 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« on: January 27, 2006, 11:17:00 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2006, 12:01:00 PM »
Should be interesting, to say the least.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2006, 12:10:00 AM »
I said this yesterday:

Free palestine, my ass. Hamas has killed and tortured more of their own people than Israelis. These people are voting in their doom.

If they think the Israeli occupation was bad, just wait until Hamas is in charge.

There is a saying that people often deserve their leaders.


Well... it's really not anything new. The radical factions in the palestinian territories have been in charge for decades. It's just "formal" now.

Now the palestinians can no longer blame Israel for their misery.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2006, 10:25:00 AM »
It shows there will never be peace between Israel and Palestine. Perpetual warfare in a tiny nation state, what a lovely place to live.  :roll: Someone has to WIN this war for it to end.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2006, 02:54:00 PM »
Actually, Israel is apparently a very beautiful place to live. The only place in the middle east that is, as far as I know. I think that says something about the Israelis.

In addition, there are many Israelis who are opposed to the violence between the two entities. They teach tolerance to children in the schools. I don't see too much of that on the Palestinian side. (I remember hearing of ONE protest that took place opposed to the intifada. Bravo for them, though.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2006, 03:07:00 PM »
That's the point though. No matter what the Israelis do (teaching tolerance and peace, etc) the palestinians are not changing any tiem soon, and their vote has shown us that -- that want to regress rather than progress the peace process. Israel's economy and immigration suffer tremendously because of the suicide blasts and other attacks. Even if they give up the settlements... the palestinian leadership claims they own all of Israel. It's a war... sure, a low intensity war, but it's a war -- and it won't be over until someone wins. The scenery in Israel is unbeatable, but living of fear of an enemy that lives SO CLOSE to you and is willing to blow themsleves up.. well.. how long can a nation be expected to live under those conditions and not seriously fight back? Thats all im saying...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2006, 06:21:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-30 12:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"That's the point though. No matter what the Israelis do (teaching tolerance and peace, etc) the palestinians are not changing any tiem soon, and their vote has shown us that -- that want to regress rather than progress the peace process. Israel's economy and immigration suffer tremendously because of the suicide blasts and other attacks. Even if they give up the settlements... the palestinian leadership claims they own all of Israel. It's a war... sure, a low intensity war, but it's a war -- and it won't be over until someone wins. The scenery in Israel is unbeatable, but living of fear of an enemy that lives SO CLOSE to you and is willing to blow themsleves up.. well.. how long can a nation be expected to live under those conditions and not seriously fight back? Thats all im saying..."


I totally agree with you.

_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-30 15:22 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2006, 06:59:00 PM »
Same problem over here. It's been 500 years and still these stuborn natives persist in believing we stole their land from them. I do not know how much longer it will to take before we are able to help them take a more sane view of things.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2006, 07:23:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-30 15:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Same problem over here. It's been 500 years and still these stuborn natives persist in believing we stole their land from them. I do not know how much longer it will to take before we are able to help them take a more sane view of things.

"


Bullshit. The indians didn't invade our land and try to destroy us. We invaded them. They merely defended themselves. If anything, the indians are equivalent to Israel and we are equivalent to the palestinians. It's just that in our scenario, we won and occupied the Indian territory. We were the agressors, just like the Palestinians. Either way, comparing the two is a shaky analogy, at best.

The surrounding countries all conspired to invade and destroy Israel.  Isreal fought and as a result of the 6 day war, got the gaza strip and the west bank. Israel defended themselves from annihiliation. The people in the occupied territories then became known as the palestinians. Before that, there was no such thing in the modern world. There is no palestinian ethnicity. They are Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, and Lebanese. In addition, their original home countries won't take them back.

Even before Israel was re-created after WWII, everyone in that area fought to eradicate the Jews. Even England wanted them out of there.

I think that if Palestine and the surrounding countries succeed in destroying Israel and occupy that land, they will be as merciless as we were to the Indians.

People who support the Palestinian agenda should really read up on the history of Israel and the six day war.

I don't have any problem giving the west bank and gaza strip to the palestinians. I just don't think they will be satisfied with that. They will not be happy until Israel is no more. I guarantee you, that the terrorist attacks will not stop once Palestine has its own government and is sovereign. In fact, I'd be willing to put money down.

_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-30 16:33 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2006, 10:17:00 PM »
U.S., EU Threaten Aid Cut Unless Hamas Accepts Israel

Jan. 31 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S., European Union, United Nations and Russia said Hamas officials must form a Palestinian government that accepts Israel's existence or risk a cutoff of international aid.

The diplomatic group, known as the Quartet, threatened late yesterday in London to review all aid should Hamas maintain its violent opposition and refusal to endorse peace efforts. The Quartet's statement set a deadline on demands that European leaders and President George W. Bush made after Hamas's surprise election victory.

``Once these conditions are fulfilled, the European Union will stand ready to continue supporting Palestinian economic development,'' EU High Representative Javier Solana said after conferring with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

At stake is hundreds of millions of dollars to support the Palestinian administration and building projects. Europe is the biggest donor to the Palestinian Authority, spending 500 million euros ($604 million) in 2005 on utilities, food aid, social services and election support.

Hamas has threatened to tap Iran, now battling the EU and U.S. over its nuclear program, to replace any lost European money.

Gaza Building

A senior U.S. official said the Palestinian Authority needs about $100 million to function each month and relies mostly on donations. In jeopardy may also be a Group of Eight pledge in July to help raise $9 billion over three years to help the Palestinians develop the Gaza Strip, which Israel evacuated in August.

Rice said the U.S. and its partners would consider Palestinian humanitarian needs, signaling that aid would likely continue to flow to charities even if Hamas didn't change its positions. The UN said the 273 schools and 54 health care facilities it runs for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza almost certainly will keep operating. The U.S. pays a fifth of the operating budget for that effort.

Officials said there would be no cut in aid to the current Palestinian government led by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas of the defeated Fatah party.

``There is a commitment here to try and live up to the obligations that were undertaken to the caretaker government'' overseen by Abbas, Rice said. Abbas said yesterday he intended to serve out the remaining three years of his term.

U.S. officials said forming a government could take two to three months, giving Hamas that time to answer the demands.

``We want to work with a government that is a partner in peace,'' Bush said in Washington yesterday. ``Get rid of your arms, disavow terrorism.''

Hamas Plea

Ismail Hania, who headed the Hamas election slate, urged the EU and other international donors yesterday to continue funding the Palestinian Authority once the group enters the government.

``We will adopt reform procedures leading to administrative and financial transparency,'' Hania said at his home in the Shati refugee camp. ``All Palestinian income from donors, taxes and customs will flow into the Finance Ministry.''

Rice sought consensus among partners on the aid question, and senior U.S. officials told reporters accompanying the secretary of state they were satisfied with the agreement reached on the money question.

``We are working into the same direction, with the same aspirations,'' said Ursula Plassnik, the foreign minister of Austria, which holds the rotating presidency of the EU.

Promoting Democracy

One senior U.S. official, reflecting on the Hamas victory, said the Bush administration still believed that promoting democracy was the best option throughout the region, even when the results are not ideal.

Along those lines, the Quartet congratulated the Palestinians on holding ``an electoral process that was free, fair and secure.''

``Those who have been elected by the Palestinian people have an obligation,'' Rice said after the meeting. ``And that obligation is to speak to the aspiration of the Palestinian people and for a peaceful life.''

Earlier yesterday, some European officials suggested that they would take a wait-and-see approach in deciding whether to cut aid to a Hamas-led government. A senior U.S. official said while there may have been differences in tone throughout the day, everyone was committed to the same set of principles and consequences.

Most U.S. aid to the Palestinians by contrast is funneled to humanitarian groups via the U.S. Agency for International Development. It has only twice given money directly to the PA, including last year when it sent $70 million to prop up the new president, Abbas, after the death of Yasser Arafat.

Different Approaches

The U.S. and EU have had different approaches to Hamas in the past, so their joint statement signaled a consensus that for a long time was hard to reach.

The U.S. classified Hamas as a terrorist organization in 1992; the EU only did so in 2003.

While a U.S. ban on contacts with Hamas went into effect with its designation as a terrorist organization, the EU for a decade longer tried to mediate between Hamas, Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

To contact the reporter on this story:
Janine Zacharia in London at  [email protected].

Last Updated: January 30, 2006 21:38 EST
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2006, 10:32:00 PM »
Quote


Bullshit. The indians didn't invade our land and try to destroy us. We invaded them. They merely defended themselves. If anything, the indians are equivalent to Israel and we are equivalent to the palestinians. It's just that in our scenario, we won and occupied the Indian territory. We were the agressors, just like the Palestinians. Either way, comparing the two is a shaky analogy, at best.


Humans have been invading and taking over each others territories since the beggining of mankind.

Do you really believe that the native american indians would have survived intact, unchanged, if the settlers didn't take them over?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2006, 11:28:00 PM »
Are you implying then that the Palestinians should take over Israel, for Israel's own good?

_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-30 20:29 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline webcrawler

  • Posts: 1041
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2006, 12:11:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-30 16:23:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-01-30 15:59:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Same problem over here. It's been 500 years and still these stuborn natives persist in believing we stole their land from them. I do not know how much longer it will to take before we are able to help them take a more sane view of things.



"




Bullshit. The indians didn't invade our land and try to destroy us. We invaded them. They merely defended themselves. If anything, the indians are equivalent to Israel and we are equivalent to the palestinians. It's just that in our scenario, we won and occupied the Indian territory. We were the agressors, just like the Palestinians. Either way, comparing the two is a shaky analogy, at best.



The surrounding countries all conspired to invade and destroy Israel.  Isreal fought and as a result of the 6 day war, got the gaza strip and the west bank. Israel defended themselves from annihiliation. The people in the occupied territories then became known as the palestinians. Before that, there was no such thing in the modern world. There is no palestinian ethnicity. They are Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, and Lebanese. In addition, their original home countries won't take them back.



Even before Israel was re-created after WWII, everyone in that area fought to eradicate the Jews. Even England wanted them out of there.



I think that if Palestine and the surrounding countries succeed in destroying Israel and occupy that land, they will be as merciless as we were to the Indians.



People who support the Palestinian agenda should really read up on the history of Israel and the six day war.



I don't have any problem giving the west bank and gaza strip to the palestinians. I just don't think they will be satisfied with that. They will not be happy until Israel is no more. I guarantee you, that the terrorist attacks will not stop once Palestine has its own government and is sovereign. In fact, I'd be willing to put money down.



_________________

"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."

-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-30 16:33 ]"



I'm just not following how you compare Israel with the Indians. That land was taken from the Palestians. That is why Jordan was created. Besides Jordan the Middle East has been spilt up into different countries by outsiders wishing to serve their own agendas.

So lets just say another ethnic group that is being slaughtered comes to the attention of the world. It's decided they will come to the United States to have their own state and everyone already here must either live by their rules and forfeit their homes and land or move to Texas. It's not right.

I don't support the violence over there, but they want their land back and the right to self govern without Israeli occupation.

They voted for Hamas and now the United States and other countries are saying they will not recognize their govt. under Hamas. I mean which is it? Our president is currently sending over troops to kill people some place else in the name of democracy and the right to self govern, but really both situations are really a farce. Our govt. only supports govts that are willing to be U.S. puppets.

Nothing personal, but my opinion just differs on this matter. I'm also no Middle East expert and don't have the answers. A friend of mine is from the West Bank and I have had my eyes opened to a lot of shit they have to deal with too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am looking for people who survived Straight in Plymouth, Michigan. I miss a lot of people there and wonder what happened and would like to stay in touch.

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2006, 12:50:00 AM »
Well, my comparison to the Indians was a rebuttal to the previous poster's desire to do so. I personally think that the analogy itself is weak.

Also, the land was taken because Israel was about to be attacked. (as opposed to this nebulous idea of WMD in Iraq, where it was obvious, at least from my viewpoint, that Iraq wasn't planning on attacking the US or invading it.) The surrounding countries had their troops and tanks lined up on Israel's borders, on all sides. Israel just made a tactical first move to use the element of surprise. Had they not, it was obvious that the invasion of Israel would have happened. After the 6 days of handing their enemies' asses back to them, Israel claimed that land. Probably not a good move in hindsight. It might have been better to just go in, kick their asses, and get out. I honestly don't know which would have been the better move on their part. But the pre-emption was valid, as opposed to Bush's nebulous idea of pre-emption.

As for the funding, I personally think that palestine never should have been receiving aid to begin with. Now that hamas has been elected, I definitely think the US should withdraw their help.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Hamas Palestine
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2006, 11:13:00 AM »
Quote
I don't support the violence over there, but they want their land back and the right to self govern without Israeli occupation.


The land is no longer theirs. Sure, it's harsh, but it's reality. This past century has seen tens of millions of people displaced during many different wars. You don't see them blowing themselves up to reclaim 'their land' after border changes that were approved by the UN. What if Mexicans started coming across the border to blow themselves up inside Texas, claiming our victory over Santa Ana was a farse, how do you think Americans would respond? Or how about California, Arizona, New Mexico. Territories and land taken by war has been the standard for a LONG time. Why is Israel the exception? If Americans really believe the palestinians have any right to any land other than that of the original 1948 borders, they should also believe in giving back America to native americans. The native american anology barely stands though, because the palestinians left by choice. When the arab countries were about to invade the day after the UN approved Israel as a state, they told the pal's to leave and they could return and settle in the newly conquered terrority... after kicking all the Jews into the sea of course. If Israel followed the arab strategy of mass-murder and displacement, they could easily take over the entire land mass and kick the palestinians out into the sea! Why don't they? I don't know, but the arabs had no problem trying it. The arabs are pissed because they have always dominated the area.. now the western world does. Round and round this religious merry-go-round we go... where it stops, nobody knows!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »