Author Topic: Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"  (Read 32656 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2006, 11:58:00 PM »
OK, Eudora.  You have the rap stool.  It's Friday night.  Move the chairs.  You can be in my recurring nightmare.

I'm standing, The pressure is on.  Group is staring with intense fury.  The front row 5th phaser has a stack of white slips, reports about me.  What's on them?  What past confession will be painfully thrown in my face?  What cutting insult?  

Oh, shit, it's the kiss-ass thing again. "You're such a fucking kiss-ass! It's your fucking fault this happened, we all know it, Don't try that shit here in OUR group!  We all know what you're all about!"  "Don't LIE ABOUT IT."

  They're all waiting for me to speak ...  "I, uhh, But I ....."  Chairs are rumbling. Quick, think, what can I say to make them stop, avoid the attack? Too late, they've made up thier minds about me.  What was I thinking, why did I try to say anything at all.  Against my accusers?  Who accused me?  No names on the slips, no friends here, no friends. Give up, Comply. Say what they want me to say.  Pray it's over quickly.  

I start slowly, "You're right, Eudora, Hip's ok.  He must be, he's got that T and R shine.  He's going home, and everyone here loves him.  He's so pure now, he does charity concerts for children.  It wasn't personal, I shouldn't take it that way. Why am I being so touchy?"  "It didn't happen the way I said.  My memory is faulty."  In back, a sheet of paper is torn slowly, strip by strip.

Eudora stares out cooly from her rap stool, legs crossed neatly.

The room quiets, prepares for the next person to be called.  I can sit down now, it's over.  They're after someone else.  I stare straight ahead, and only hear the flourescent lights buzzing. That strobelight flicker thing from the fans.  The red heat drains from my face, copper taste fades in my mouth.  I look to the side, a person with no face smiles sadly at me, the smile means "at least you tried".  My eyes water.  Someone jams a knuckle in my back. a finger pokes my cheek, warning me to look  ahead.  I bite my lips shut, breath around the lump in my throat.  I. Do. Not. COMPLY.  I begin to move.  Stand. I try and shout, but only a dry croak, barely a whisper comes out.  "WHY WAS HE FIRED?"

A rap stool creaks, and Eudora says "shut him up and hold him down."

I'm torn from the row, dirty hands mash my lips against my teeth.  A fingernail cuts my lower eyelid and it stings so bad.  Shredded lip meat drifts in little bits on my tongue.  I have to concentrate to breath around the hand partially blocking my nose. Snot blows in and out, in and out.  Arms go numb.  But the legs, they hurt on and on and on....

I wake up sweating.  


I am AWAKE now.  You woke me, Matt.  I haven't slept in three days.  I've been to Wally-World, and Wally-World bites.

What should I believe, group?  Tell me what to say.  How about one of these?

Hipster lied in these forums about sabotaging my car to make himself feel better, or to impress someone.  That's the Hip I remember.  He lied, he lies, I can believe that.  So can you.  Simple car crash, that's all.

Maybe he did it to somebody elses car that he hates more or hates less.  That makes me feel better.  HaHa, Miller Newton, spawn of satan, check your brakes.

Someone else did it that didn't brag about it on-line.  

Somebody stole Hip's username and password and wrote those posts to mess with his mind.  Nah, too big a stretch.  This is a secure site, right?

It was a car accident.  I believed that for 20 years.  I'll talk myself back into it.

This is what everybody believes happened:
I fired him for jolt cola.  I was a hypocrite to do so, seeing as how I drank cases of it myself.
Turkish coffee and Newports in Harvard Square, too.  It's so believable, everybody knows I was the biggest ass-sniffer ever, Hip says so.  Everybody knows it, from '81 to '97.  How do they know?  They've read the little white cyber slips, it must be true....

You think shit only happened to him, it was never caused by him, "he always seemed to nice, who could ever have imagined?..."  

I've PM'd Hip, and asked him (just him) to leave me alone.  If you keep a man's secrets, you expect to be left alone, and not killed. (just kidding).

Are those stackable chairs I hear rumbling in cyber space?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Binky

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #151 on: February 09, 2006, 12:37:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-08 16:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"how much is Matt paying you to do his thinking and typing for him? give it a rest, sister."


I've gotta agree here Eudora - and sorry to sound on the offense here, but you have NO idea what you're talking about -

Matt's story is all over the map - and with each post Matt's lies are revealing themselves.

Eudora - you're bending over backward to believe Matt - is it because Paul was on staff?

I'm having a really hard time seeing from your point of view - and it seems that you have a large need for Matt to be right - it's either because you are a friend of Matt's - or that you are in fact - Matt.

The defense you're putting up just doesn't stand to reason - I'm confused -
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #152 on: February 09, 2006, 12:45:00 AM »
Keep in mind that Matt has not yet commented on the most recent posts made by Paul. Let's not just to conclusions just yet.
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Offline Antigen

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #153 on: February 09, 2006, 06:40:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-08 20:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"OK, Eudora.  You have the rap stool.  It's Friday night.  Move the chairs.  You can be in my recurring nightmare.


Hey asshole, if you didn't want to know what ppl think, why ask? You really do think this is group, don't you?

I don't know Matt too well. Really, just started talking a little while ago after he started posting here. But I damned sure know a good old fashioned, home style Program smear campaign when I see one.

So far, he's describe about the same as I experienced and the same as I've heard a hundred times or more from my fellow splits, pull-offs and fuck ups.

You think he's trying fuckin' kill you? "It's your program", you say? No, dumb ass, we're not in the program anymore. This is life.

You're just wrong, that's all.

For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.  
-- Johnny Carson

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #154 on: February 09, 2006, 06:52:00 AM »
Quote
This is what everybody believes happened:
I fired him for jolt cola. I was a hypocrite to do so, seeing as how I drank cases of it myself.
Turkish coffee and Newports in Harvard Square, too. It's so believable, everybody knows I was the biggest ass-sniffer ever, Hip says so. Everybody knows it, from '81 to '97. How do they know? They've read the little white cyber slips, it must be true....

Hip's not the only one who remembers you, dude! I find you're li'll pose of Super Straightlings unimpressive. You guys are still up to your eyebrows in the kool aid. It's obvious by the way you think and the way you operate. They did the same thing to me when I finally escaped. I'd seen it done to dozens of friends already. Either you're a good little Seedling/Straightling or you must be a drug crazed, homocidal maniac. Just because you and your staff buddies made up all kinds of shit about splits, pulls and fuckups doesn't mean any of it was true.
 

Quote
You think shit only happened to him, it was never caused by him, "he always seemed to nice, who could ever have imagined?..."

Look, whoever's paying you to try and think for me, they're wasting their money. Go back and read what has transpired over these past few days, I think you've lost the thread of it. All the dude said was that you and some others were assholes to him, then he described SOP, then you and your buddies gave a decent demonstration of it.

What the hell do you care what I think about you anyway?

Quote

I've PM'd Hip, and asked him (just him) to leave me alone. If you keep a man's secrets, you expect to be left alone, and not killed. (just kidding).


Also typical Program SOP; if ya' can't just shout down the critic, there's always blackmail. Here's the funny part. You and your close friends there are the only ones still brainwashed enough to think your "secrets" have any basis in reality.

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #155 on: February 09, 2006, 06:57:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-08 21:37:00, Father Abraham wrote:

Matt's story is all over the map - and with each post Matt's lies are revealing themselves.

Eudora - you're bending over backward to believe Matt - is it because Paul was on staff?

I'm having a really hard time seeing from your point of view - and it seems that you have a large need for Matt to be right - it's either because you are a friend of Matt's - or that you are in fact - Matt.

You're missing the point (actually, being pretty easily led away from it) I don't need to have perfect purity out of anyone. Human beings are just not like that. 20 year old stories tend to be sketchy in the details.

Here's the diff; Matt disagrees w/ what Paul says, he just says he disagrees. Paule remembers things differently, and he's off writing soap operas about murder and worse. Very familiar! "Don't talk to the staff fuck up! He's dangerous, dangerous! He'll lead you astray! Don't believe him! Don't even listen to him!!!"

 :roll:

Quote
The defense you're putting up just doesn't stand to reason - I'm confused -


I'm not defending him, dumb ass. I'm talking back to staff. And why not? Most of us are not in group anymore.

I think what makes stepcraft survivors different is that we have participated in the Asch Experiment writ large, and know what we (and others)are capable of in that situation.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7711&forum=8&start=42#157103' target='_new'>Johnny G.

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #156 on: February 09, 2006, 07:04:00 AM »
Wow Ginger,

What ever happened to " everyone is allowed to have their own opinions and to express them"??
I can't count the number of times you have written that. You were not in the program with these guys were you?? Really, how can you determine who is telling the truth here? You think because you may have spoken to hip that you KNOW he is telling the truth? I don't know either of these guys as I was in the St.Pete program much earlier than them. I have been reading this post since it started and your responses in particular have been very visceral. Good old fashioned straight smear campaign?? Come on girl, get  a grip here.
These are two guys who obviousley have very different memories of how things happened back then. I don't know about you but I think I could take anyone who was in when I was and we would probably remember many things very differently.
It seems to me that you have a big problem with this guy Paul because he was a staff member.
He seems to have admitted that he was screwed up as well as screwed over just like the rest of us. You said it yourself " we are not in the program anymore" so why are you still acting like you are? It's not us vs. them anymore. At least it's not for me.
This guy has a right to express his opinion just like anyone.
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Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #157 on: February 09, 2006, 07:07:00 AM »
"Talking back to staff"????

Ginger, you really are spending way to much time on this site
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Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #158 on: February 09, 2006, 07:53:00 AM »
You have so much anger and bile, Eudora. Twenty four years later and you're still obviously consumed with hatred and venom. I can only wish, for your sake, that some day you will be able to come to terms with your demons. Seriously.
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Offline Binky

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #159 on: February 09, 2006, 08:31:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-09 03:57:00, Eudora wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-02-08 21:37:00, Father Abraham wrote:


Matt's story is all over the map - and with each post Matt's lies are revealing themselves.



Eudora - you're bending over backward to believe Matt - is it because Paul was on staff?



I'm having a really hard time seeing from your point of view - and it seems that you have a large need for Matt to be right - it's either because you are a friend of Matt's - or that you are in fact - Matt.




You're missing the point (actually, being pretty easily led away from it) I don't need to have perfect purity out of anyone. Human beings are just not like that. 20 year old stories tend to be sketchy in the details.



Here's the diff; Matt disagrees w/ what Paul says, he just says he disagrees. Paule remembers things differently, and he's off writing soap operas about murder and worse. Very familiar! "Don't talk to the staff fuck up! He's dangerous, dangerous! He'll lead you astray! Don't believe him! Don't even listen to him!!!"



 :roll:



Quote

The defense you're putting up just doesn't stand to reason - I'm confused -



I'm not defending him, dumb ass. I'm talking back to staff. And why not? Most of us are not in group anymore.

I think what makes stepcraft survivors different is that we have participated in the Asch Experiment writ large, and know what we (and others)are capable of in that situation.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7711&forum=8&start=42#157103' target='_new'>Johnny G.


"


"Dumb ass" - wassup with that?

You say:
"I'm not defending him, dumb ass. I'm talking back to staff. And why not? Most of us are not in group anymore"

Right, but Matt was also on staff - is it because he smokes pot that makes his part of this excusable? - I understand that he felt betrayed by those around him -- but listening to both sides there was no betrayal -

Matt had a job, didn't do what the company wanted, lost his job and felt hurt

I get that - but the rent thing

He didn't pay his rent and trashed his "friends" cars (all this he said in earlier posts)

So - where are you confronting staff on this - where are you "talking back to staff"

A man doesn't pay his rent - leaves others holding the bag - that's just not right

Also -

All this brings me back to why I don't come around here to often -- it's too full of hate and venom

I was there too '85-'86 - front row - Evans Drive and Lord of the Flies is a very messed up place to be -

We really are like vets from a war
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Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #160 on: February 10, 2006, 08:27:00 AM »
Where is the hippie?
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Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #161 on: February 10, 2006, 05:00:00 PM »
where indeed.
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Offline Anonymous

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #162 on: February 10, 2006, 05:13:00 PM »
Why is hippie not answering up to all this stuff? not that he has to, but that is kind of like taking the fifth. I feel like the last pages of a good book were ripped up.
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Offline Lost_In_Translation

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #163 on: February 10, 2006, 05:18:00 PM »
Eudora's right.  We are totally off topic.

I can't be here and not think like I'm in group.

I'm reading my own posts and I sound like a psycho.  I've said at meetings that if I could meet myself at age 22, I'd beat the shit out of me.  I was trying my best in a desperately bad situation, and I'd rather believe I was a good person than realize all over again how seriously blind I can be to my own flaws.  Matt feels the same way about himself, I'd wager.  I still don't like him though.  It sucks to admit that I actually still hate him.  Hate and venom, didn't I accuse others of that?  Several times?  I chased Matt off this forum like a rabid dog, and I have an anger hangover.

Eudora,
I respect what you said, even though it felt like a punch in the face.  It took days for it to sink in.  I punched you back.  I hated you for a moment, too.  And I don't even know you.  
My nightmare about being unable to stop anything came back.  Please, forgive me for making you stand in for Leslie Murden/Suzanne Byrd.  It would mean a lot if you could.

I don't know how you remain on these forums, it brings out the worst in me.  Perversely, it made me feel better.  Cathartic, but in a sick way.  Like puking up dry.  I'm not as adjusted as I'd like to think I am, but not as crazy as some believe.

Matt, wherever you are, in 1986 you were the most full of shit moocher I ever met.  User in the extreme.  Enough said.  I'm alarmed by how much hatred and anger I felt reading the stuff you wrote.  I felt out of control.  You wrote shit I hated to hear about who I was, and I went viciously ballistic about who you were, are, and might ever be.   I reached for the moral high ground, and it wasn't mine to take.  My second private message was sent out of malice.  It's all bullshit.  Please, erase it.  I have.  Nobody else has seen it, and I'm ashamed that I wrote it.  I think you were out-of-line back then about some serious shit, so I got you fired, and I took satisfaction in it.  You left owing a shitload, and I do mean a SHITLOAD of money.  But, you didn't owe it all to me.  That much cash would still be hard to come up with today.  I can see how you would still feel fucked over.  Now I know I still feel fucked over too.  For the record, I threw your bong out the window, and it bounced off your car.  And, I took that "I brake for hallucinations" bumper sticker off the bumper.  I hated that fucking thing.  It was like a red cape to a bull.  That's two things I did to your car.  Cosmetic vs. mechanical, but I did it.  

I think you're still a dick, but that's your right.  Apparently, so am I.  There are people here that hate us both, and some that like us.  I guess it is, in that way, a bit like group.  We were really good friends once.  It went seriously wrong.  You'll never forgive me, and I'll stop trying to make you.  I'll never forgive you either.  But I understand it better now.

A couple people reached out to me this week.  I appreciate it.  I think you meant provide support, but I took it to mean you were on my side.  There's no side.  I helped a few, and hurt a few.  The rest don't give a shit about me.  I feel that way about people from my time there too.  I'm seriously unresolved about that time in my life.

Can you imagine would might happen if all of us ever got together?  I'd fucking drink. Seriously, one or two of you at a time is the most that I can handle.

I wish you all more peace than I feel right now.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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Stoughton - A question for "Staff/Old Comers"
« Reply #164 on: February 10, 2006, 05:30:00 PM »
Paul, even though I called you a mutherfucker(maybe that was a little harsh) a while back I wish you peace too.  $tr8 fucked us all up, and I consider that an understatement.  Healing from the wounds inflicted by our experience in $tr8 is painful. Peace ?? ... Absolutely, I wish it for you.

I will send you a pm so you know who I am.
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.