"if you don't, she will die"

[GregFL]

In the Seed intake office, sitting at a table with her daughter and a Seed staffer, the mother recalls that she thought "I don't want this for my daughter."

and

"If they lie on this they'll lie on the other thing..





While initially duped and caught up in the whole "they're gonna die without the seed" hype, this mom turned out to be one smart cookie.

We should of all been so lucky. Now, If we could just find out who this girl was, and what happened to her.

I mean, did she die, go insane or is she in jail now?

I doubt it.

[Antigen]

Sorry, don't mean to hijack your thread. This is all good reading. But I do want to interject something here.

From: The Smoking Gun

In additon to these rap sheet creations, Frey also invented a role for himself in a deadly train accident that cost the lives of two female high school students. In what may be his book's most crass flight from reality, Frey remarkably appropriates and manipulates details of the incident so he can falsely portray himself as the tragedy's third victim. It's a cynical and offensive ploy that has left one of the victims' parents bewildered. "As far as I know, he had nothing to do with the accident," said the mother of one of the dead girls. "I figured he was taking license...he's a writer, you know, they don't tell everything that's factual and true."

 Frey appears to have fictionalized his past to propel and sweeten the book's already melodramatic narrative and help convince readers of his malevolence. "I was a bad guy," Frey told Winfrey. "If I was gonna write a book that was true, and I was gonna write a book that was honest, then I was gonna have to write about myself in very, very negative ways." That is repeatedly apparent in his memoir, which announces, "I am an Alcoholic and I am a drug Addict and I am a Criminal." It is an incantation he repeats eight times in the book, always making sure to capitalize the 'c' in Criminal.

Where do ya'll suppose he learned that trick?

If TCs were interested in treating substance abuse, half the time they'd tell mom "Sorry ma'am, we can't help him. He's not an addict, he's just an asshole.
--GregFL

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-13 07:27:00, GregFL wrote:

Rumors fly and it is built into "ropes and chains". Fear ruled the day if you were a teenager in St Pete.

Yup, it was very much the same in Ft. Lauderdale there for awhile. I don't remember believing very strongly in the stuff about ropes and chains. But I damned sure was walking on egg-shells for a good many of my most formative years.

Now THAT is the Seed I was in. And it did help prepare me for Straight in very real and significant ways. It still sucked and it still was a monumental mindfuck. However, it wasn't anywhere near as disorienting to me as it was for most kids. I was well familiar with the culture and language and well able to navigate in it.

So thanks, Ter, John, Lybbi and all the rest of you mindfuckers for my basic training. It served me very well in real combat.

I don't believe in Jesus.
--John Lennon, British songwriter and member of "The Beatles"

[Antigen]

Man, listen to this interview! Hear anything sorta like a home town accent? Like, inapropriate interrogative inflection?

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/writers/w ... kid=559271

Those who control the past, control the future; and those who control the present, control the past.

--George Orwell

[Antigen]

While the book is brimming with improbable characters--like the colorful mafioso Leonard and the tragic crack whore Lilly, with whom Frey takes up in Hazelden--and equally implausible scenes, we chose to focus on the crime and justice aspect of "A Million Little Pieces." Which wasn't much of a decision since almost every character in Frey's book that could address the remaining topics has either committed suicide, been murdered, died of AIDS, been sentenced to life in prison, gone missing, landed in an institution for the criminally insane, or fell off a fishing boat never to be seen again.

While we do not doubt Frey spent time in rehab, there really isn't anyone left (besides the author himself) to vouch for many of the book's outlandish stories.
ibid

As your attorney, it is my duty to inform you that it is not important that you understand what I'm doing or why you're paying me so much money.  What's important is that you continue to do so.
--Hunter S. Thompson's Samoan Attorney

[JaLong]

Honesty Greg?? Well let me tell you, after reading these articles memories that I assume have been buried have sufaced. I thought I had taken care of EVERYTHING in me concerning the seed.. Guess not.
Anyhow, as I was reading I remembered when my parents tricked me into going to the store with them, and at the last minute my mom wanted to go, I was stuck between them in the front seat of the car. Out of my dad's pockect came a "phoney" court order. I freaked and tried shoving my mom out of the car door on park street. To no avail, I ended up in the seeds parking lot. I now remember I refused to get out of the car. I was kicking and screaming "NO"!! I was pulled out of the car by three big guys,(I am female)and they tried getting me into the building. I talked them into letting walk in, yet they still hung on to my pants and hands. Once inside, Dear Mrs Peterson "welcomed" me with threats of calling the police and having me arrested for selling drugs. She said, "every police dept. knows you sell drugs, from St.Pete Bch, T.I., Maderia, to Seminole." That might have been true, yet I didn't want to go to jail. It took me, after tearing up or chewing up the intake paper, I finally resigned myself to signing it. Then I was taken to the bathroom and searched. I have had that shoved deep down inside of me for 33 yrs now.
Man, first I am gang raped at 14 yrs old, put in the seed at 17 in July 73, then I see one of my rapist on staff.....  Man does that suck or what?? Greg,a big part of me wants to say thank you for putting these articles up, yet while reading them  my heart was beating awfully fast from the stuffed memories of my first day of the seed. I do not and have never capitalized the name the "seed", because the name and everything it stood for doesn't deserve any honor from me. I just hope I have no more surpressed memories. That's why I keep getting drawn here to read the latest. Thank you Greg. I can now release some more garbage from my teenage yrs.
God bless, Julie

[GregFL]

You know Julie, I get what you are saying. Part of me sometimes thinks the easy way out is not to confront this stuff.

But dammit, it did happen, now didn't it?

All of the lovey dovey dead-insane, instant-family, and other self masturbation talk changes not one iota of what the seed really was, a forced indoctrination camp designed to culturally change us children into the image of what our parents thought we should be.

Forcing someone to change their personality involves some extreme ugliness, and not facing that ugliness in my opinion, keeps us from being whole people.

Julie, on the article I just posted  "today the seed, tomorrow the world", my heart was pounding as well.  Every stinking fucking thing said in that article is true, and here is the big one...our parents knew it but choose to support the Seed anyway.  This stuff was all over the press and on everyone's lips.  Yet, they so wanted us to change into that smiling country-loving compliant seedling, just like the kid down the street.

[Stripe]

Julie,

It is tough to reconcile what we have choosen to remember with actual accounts. I understand your pain and when I read the newest article about the boy named Pat, it brought me to tears.  

I guess the good thing that comes out of actually facing the pain and truth of the Seed is that once you face it, it's over and it's done.  There is no more stuff slightly under the surface that you have to keep in check so that your world doesn't crack up.  Peace be with you, Julie.

Kevin Jean

[JaLong]

Greg, that article about "Pat" is so true. The seed told my parents that I would never be able to go home again if they didn't bring my middle sister in. She tried weed one frickin time, and in she came. After "graduating", she has refused to talk about the seed still after all these years. It messed her up really badly. Ya know Greg that I have been pretty much pro-seed here, yet also sharing what I had been through.
Now my dear friend, "I can see clearly now" that Art Barker was an egotistic, self-indulging, insane man. The seed did suck, just like all of the bumper stickers that were plastered all over our garage door one morning when we woke up. The judges were fooled. The State Attorney was fooled. The government was fooled, and so were our parents.
I know I was a very messed up teenager, and yes I did do many drugs. My parents lost contol of me, as I lost control of myself. I will end this by saying the only thing good about the seed is I am still alive. I was made to get off of the streets. A horrible way to do it, but as my parents have told me, they didn't know what else to do. They were scared for me, and they themselves were very insecure people. They fell for the bull that their friends, who were my friends parents already in the seed said. You will not be hearing me talk positive about the seed again. It was an institution that brain washed children. I know I was knocked down to a nothing,(didn't think I could feel any worse about myself), and they tried to build me up to be like everyone else. Thanks again for all that you do.
God Bless You,
Julie

[JaLong]

Thanks Kevin,
I understand what you are saying. While remembering what I did, at first I felt sad, then anger, then relief. Relief because I confronted a memory that really hurt me at the time when I was 17. Now 33 yrs later, I can remember something, think about it, and just let it go. As I said to Greg, the seed saved my life 'ONLY" because I was off of the streets. The rest of the experience was pretty much a nightmare. Yes, Susie Connors was there for me, yet now I wonder with what kind of sincerity?? It doesn't really matter any more, because it is all over with. That part of my life is history, and I sure would love to write a book about my life. I'd probably name it," From hell to Heaven." LOL. I do have peace in my life Kevin, and I appreciate your caring and kind words. This means a lot to me. Take care Kevin.
Julie

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-14 16:55:00, JaLong wrote:

"Thanks Kevin,
Yes, Susie Connors was there for me, yet now I wonder with what kind of sincerity??

The type of total, unquestioning faith available only to blindly devoted zealots; sagusees and pharasees. (spell check it yourself, it's been over 20 years for more)

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/188301123X/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>George Washington

[Antigen]

On 2006-01-14 16:55:00, JaLong wrote:

That part of my life is history, and I sure would love to write a book about my life. I'd probably name it," From hell to Heaven." LOL. I do have peace in my life Kevin, and I appreciate your caring and kind words. This means a lot to me. Take care Kevin.
Julie

Right about now, there's a market for just such a book. I encourage you to write it. I'm namin' mine "The Postman's kid".

A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question
about it.
--GW Büsh, Business Week, July 30, 2001

[marshall]

That was a great series of posts, Julie. I think many of the fierce Seed supporters may fear that if they begin to question or honestly examine the program itself the whole edifice may crumble. Some may even believe criticizing the program will lead to their relapsing into drug abuse.

I can understand their concern since I had similar concerns for years. It's like the first time I drank a beer with my father two years after graduating the program. I half expected and wondered if I'd be in the gutter with a needle in my arm within a short time....or dead, insane or back in jail. It was the same with talking to &  associating with 'druggies'. Surely this would lead to my destruction. The power of that conditioning was very strong and it took years to begin to see through it. Here I am 28 years later & I still rarely drink over 2 beers or a glass of wine & that only occasionally. No drugs, no insanity, etc.

Of course to some program proponents any serious criticism of the Seed equals being a drug addict, criminal or angry, self-indulgent pseudo-intellectual that embraces questionable ideology (meaning ideology that is at variance with the Seed party-line). Congrats on your courageous decision to apply honesty to the tenets and methods of the program itself.

[marcwordsmith]

Julie, just off the cuff, I think it's perfectly possible that Suzie truly befriended you. She was a true believer in the Seed, and she may have seen a bit of herself in you in some ways. The Seed itself was a warped program, but sometimes people genuinely did try to be kind in the context of all that party-line insanity.

Walter has written a bit about that paradox--how on the one hand, the Seed indoctrinated us into group think and did not tolerate independent thought, yet on the other hand, he really did enjoy some authentic connections with some good people in the cult and they had some great times together.  

I think it's all true -- especially with somebody like Suzie C. To me she epitomized the sometimes contradictory nature of the Seed. Suzie C. was very nice to me too. She often told me she loved me and I believed her, and I believe her to this day. I can't dislike her because she was lovely to me. And at the same time, I saw her behave just abominably to people in the group; she was an absolute emotional barbarian. She could be so vicious in how she attacked people.

In the account I wrote about the Seed which is online and which you read, I talk about a staff member named "Gloria" a couple of times. That's Suzie. She's the one who read the girl's intercepted love letters in front of the entire group (in an atrociously spiteful and humiliating fashion), and she's also the staff person who called me in to talk on my third day, and tried to scare me with stories about Raiford Penitentiary. Even then though, she didn't have a mean attitude toward me, and she never did. But oooh, if she didn't like you, she could so casually tear you apart, with what looked like relish.

Someone sent me an email recently saying that her experience in the Seed was "not that bad. I had some really kind staff and oldcomer treatment." Hey, it happened that way for some people.

[JaLong]

Marshall,
After having some time to think about it, I have come to the conclusion that Susie was real with me. I sat in an office often with her and discussed some very personal and private things about my life. I think that is how I was able to see a therapist on the outside after school. I remember one day at school many people who were my "old Friends" taunted me and kicked, hit, and threw me into lockers, just because I wouldn't talk to them. A few told me years later that they saw a change in me, a smile on my face and in my eyes.. it scared them. Anyhow, I left school and drove straight back to the seed to talk to Susie. She was very comforting, and told me she was proud of me for not falling for my friends crap. She also lived at my old comers house, and we would talk often.
Does anyone remember an older female staff who was a little on the heavy side and was mean?? I know she had brown hair and glasses. Thank you Marshall for sharing your thoughts and feelings with me. Susie was legit with me. I am grateful to her and Arthur for helping me while I was there. Arthur and I were in the clinic together for a week. I had been home for a month with the flu, kidney infection and mono. We would talk when I came back and he was in there I think because of his leg.. I came in 1 month after the seed opened here in St. Pete, and from what others say, things changed or were different in other states. It was pretty mellow, except for some times, when I was in there.
God Bless Marshall,
Julie
ps. I honestly felt happy and proud of myself when I yelled, "I'm coming home."   :smile: