Author Topic: "if you don't, she will die"  (Read 9842 times)

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Offline GregFL

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"if you don't, she will die"
« on: January 12, 2006, 12:22:00 PM »
here is an article that ran in the St Petersburg Independent on 6/3/1974, shortly after I graduated. Notble is that this was, for a while, the 'pro-seed' newspaper in town.  

[Bold and emphasis in original article]

GIRL FORCED TO THE SEED

by Paul Zach, staff writer.

A 16 year old  girl was dragged screaming and kicking from a St. Petersburg school recently and taken to The Seed, a drug rehabilitation center here.

The girl was forced into a car by two "volunteer" parents from The Seed, accompanied by the girl's mother, and taken to the drug progam's warehouse near Tyrone Square Mall during classes.

The girl's mother told the Evening Independent she had given consent for her daughter to be taken to The Seed, but later changed her mind about keeping here there after witnessing the way her daughter had been treated and how she reacted.

The principal of St. Petersburg Catholic High School where the incident occured, Mrs. Mary Wells, said she has taken action protesting the incident, but would not reveal what it was.

Mrs. Wells confirmed "force" was used, but said she did not know if reports that the girl had been beaten in the schoolyard were true.

She said the action had been "investigated and documented" and noted diaproved (sic)  of any kind of forceable conduct on moral grounds.

the girl involved told an Evening Independent reporter that she was beaten by the man after being pushed into the car.  She displayed black-and-blue marks on her legs which she said resulted from the incident.

The girl's mother said the man was only trying to keep the girl from escaping. "otherwise she would have run away", she said.  The mother would not reveal the names of the two seed parents.

The mother said the two parents had convinced her to put her daughter in the Seed telling her , If you don't, she will die".

"They told me she was taking all kinds of drugs, Marijuana, PCP, THC, cocaine, mescaline, LSD, everything but heroin.", she said.

The mother,  a widow, said she agreed to go with the two Seed parents to take her daughter from school, because she was afraid her daughter would "die" if she didn't.

The girl was called from class by her mother under the premise she had to go to the doctor.  When the girl saw the Seed parents, she said she knew something was up and tried to run.

the resulting scuffle in which the girl screamed and kicked as she was dragged to the car was witnessed by teacher and students in the schoolyard.

A spokesman at the St. Petersburg branch of the Seed who gave her name only as "Libby" said today she could not comment on the incident. The director of the program, Art Barker, was unavailable for comment this morning.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SurRobinHood

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2006, 01:04:00 PM »
Most of the few faces I remember were the people brought kicking and screaming in the doors. Them and the angry screaming faces of the staff. Ahh, the seed memories......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline FueLaw

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2006, 03:14:00 PM »
Where is "Junky John" Underwood and his followers now? Nobody ever got physically abused? Those stories really get me pissed.

There were literally hundreds and hundred of kids forced into the Seed under the pretext that they would die or end up in prison. The parents were consistently lied to about their kids level of involvement with drugs. This is what created the fear.  The frauds and scams pulled by the staff were,and always will be,a dsigrace.

Now lets hear from some of the Seed apologist as to why this was an appropriate thing to do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Stripe

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2006, 04:31:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-12 09:22:00, GregFL wrote:

"here is an article that ran in the St
GIRL FORCED TO THE SEED



by Paul Zach, staff writer.



A 16 year old  girl was dragged screaming and kicking from a St. Petersburg school recently and taken to The Seed, a drug rehabilitation center here.



The girl was forced into a car by two "volunteer" parents from The Seed, accompanied by the girl's mother, and taken to the drug progam's warehouse near Tyrone Square Mall during classes....

A spokesman at the St. Petersburg branch of the Seed who gave her name only as "Libby" said today she could not comment on the incident. The director of the program, Art Barker, was unavailable for comment this morning.
"



Well Fuelaw, my guess is that Libby, Art, John Underwood and all the other Seed apologists are STILL unavailable for comment. I would be very surprised to see any real, substantive comment about this article on this thread or on the SDF in general.

Hey, even if we were to have some kind of Nuromberg-esq (sp?) "trial" for these folks, you can bet that responses would be something along the lines of "I was just following procedure."  Which of course, would be followed by an  official statement of:
 
(1) a flat denial that any action such as was  witnessed by the school attendees ever occurred; or

(2) if it did occur, it was not condoned; or

(3) it was done for her own good.

It's fun to think about these folks being called to answer for their actions, but I seriously doubt we will see that happen in our lives.  

It doesn't mean we can't have the pipe dream, though.  MMMMM, pipedreams.... :smokin:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline GregFL

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2006, 06:40:00 PM »
ahh, but art eventually was available for comment....


anyone curious?

 :grin:
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Offline Antigen

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2006, 07:48:00 PM »
Yup!

To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.

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Offline landyh

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2006, 10:44:00 PM »
Come on Greg. This isn't fair
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2006, 11:48:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-12 15:40:00, GregFL wrote:

"ahh, but art eventually was available for comment....





anyone curious?



 :grin: "


Yeah Greg... I came all the over here to hear this!

BTW - I remember the Evening Independent.. cost a DIME!  I don't remember much of the content though.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto.
--Thomas Jefferson

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline Stripe

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2006, 12:39:00 AM »
Greg,

Please, do tell.  What was the comment????
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline GregFL

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2006, 10:09:00 AM »
Okay people, by popular demand...here it is.



Barker:  The Seed is Opposed to Force
by Paul Zach, staff writer
St. Petersburg Evening Independent. 6/4/1974

Reacting to a report yesterday of a screaming girl who was "dragged" from a high school to The Seed screaming and kicking, the director of the drug rehabiliation program said he deplores such tactics.

Director Art Barker told the Evening Independent, "The Seed has never done this, does not advocate this and is against this".

Art Barker was commenting on a recent incident at St. Petersburg Catholic High School in which a 16 year-old girl was called from class by her mother, then physically forced into a car by two parents of Seedlings.

News of the incident was sparked by spiralling rumors that a girl had been brutally beaten, put in chains and ropes and driven off the The Seed.

Both the girl and her mother denied the rumors that chains and ropes had been used.

What actually occured, according to the mother, was that she had given permission for the volunteers to take her daughter to The Seed because she was told her daughter was on drugs and would "die" if she didn't.

Following the incident at the school in which the girl was bruised on her legs when she said she was "beaten and shoved" into the car by the volunteer parents, her mother decided against signing papers that would have committed her daughter to the Seed.

"I Didn't want my dauther there for real I just wanted to teach her a lesson", she said.  The mother said she has decided to send her to a Catholic Diocese counselor.

Barker took issue with the mother's claim that she had decided against putting her daughter in The Seed.  Barker said his St. Petersburg chapter of the program "refused" to admit the girl.

Local members of The Seed denied knowledge of the incident, but Barker was contacted at his office in Fort Lauderdale.

Barker said the volunteer Seed parents involved were reprimanded.  "they were told that is not the way we do it," he said.

The principal of St. Petersburg Catholic High said the school has taken action protesting the incident.  But Principal Mary Wells would not say what the action is, noting she believed it would be more effective if it was not publicized.

"We do not approve of the use of force and force was used,"  Mrs. Wells said.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2006, 10:27:00 AM »
Honesty?

More like  damage control....

This story is so indicative of the insanity of the times.

First, the fear of the non-seedlings comes ripping thru the pages of the story.  People witness a girl called out  of class and dragged to the seed under force by a goon squad of seed parents.  Rumors fly and it is built into "ropes and chains".  Fear ruled the day if you were a teenager in St Pete.

Second, the "honesty" of staff was just so overwhelming. :wink:  

They denied any knowledge it even happened, but as soon as they do get in contact with Art, he is ready with a prepared statement, and then he has the sack to say they refused to admit this girl.  unreal.  

Who knew of any kid that had ex-seed friends tell their parents they did everything with the kid but heroin, and then the seed say they didn't need to be there?  Did this even happen one time in 73/74, when the seed was taking kids for 'attitude' and shoplifting?

Does this comport with reality as we knew it then?

This article demonstrates many things. One, that violence, whether staff wants to admit it was part of the program or not, happened.  Things often got "out of hand" back then.  Two, that our collective fear of violence was justified because it happened, and it happened fairly often in this almost out of control atmosphere.

Now staffers, here is a question for you. How the hell do you think this made us captives feel, to see kids dragged from cars into the seed, bruised, kicking and screaming?  Or when we were poked hard in the back for the sin of letting our backs hit the chair? Or when parents were called in to smack around the kids who were misbehaving, and then we were threatened with the same?  Or when kids were thrown down hard to the concrete when they tried to escape? Or when non compliant kids were sent home with the biggest most muscular kids, and then the group would laugh when it was announced? Or when we were padlocked behind rooms? Or when we were made to beg to defecate and then watched while doing so?

Do you think we believed violence wasn't part of the program, or can you see that perhaps we lived under a constant violence charged atmosphere with the thought that we could be next  buzzing in the back of our heads?  When a kid ran for the door and was thrown down hard and piled on, you may have thought this was isolated.  To us it was everytime someone tried to escape.  How do you think that made us feel?

Captive? Helpless? Powerless? Weak?

or
 
loved and respected? Valued?


Be honest now. Someone who was in a position of authority think this thru and give us a response.  It is an important point that we have been tip-toeing around for five years now.  Lets talk about it!





BTW, there is a follow up to this story coming soon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2006, 10:35:00 AM »
BTW, Stripe...

You nailed it!

#2 was the winning guess.

 :grin:
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Offline WWFSMD

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2006, 10:56:00 AM »
This is so strange to be reading this and see some of the peripheral connections to the Seed prior to my being put in Straight.  I was 9 in 1974 and went to a private school in St. Pete.  I had friends that went to St. Pete Catholic and I remember hearing about this.  About a year or two later a kid in my neighborhood disappeared.  Eventually we heard rumors about him being in the Seed.  I remember my parents talking about it and my dad's attitude to be one of 'well, he needed a good, swift kick in the ass'.  My dad worked for the SP Times, the owner of the Evening Independent (Helena, I remember that paper well too, free editions on days with no sunshine  :smile: ) so he had heard all about Art and the Seed from day one.  Looking back I guess its not so difficult to see how I ended up in Straight.

Quote
Fear ruled the day if you were a teenager in St Pete.


Damn Greg, you aint' kidding there.  First we were scared shitless of the Seed.  Then Straight.  When the neighbor kid that I knew got back from the Seed it was really odd in the neighborhood.  Parents were freaked, kids were freaked.  He didn't finish, don't know the cirumstances surrounding his exit but he was absolutely a changed person.  Angry, depressed, paranoid etc.  Poor guy was just a minor pothead before going in.  

About a year or two before I went in Straight one of the kids I knew that disappeared in there was actually broken out by her boyfriend and a few of his friends.  They waited in the parking lot and ambushed the oldcomer, grabbed Debbie and shoved her in the car that had pulled up from its hiding place around the corner and whisked her away.  The things she told us after getting out gave us chills and a permanent fear of anything connected with that place.  We ALL knew about Seed/Straight.  We ALL either knew someone directly or knew of kids that were sent away.  How many times I sat in those fucking blue chairs and thought about Mike and Carl coming to break Debbie out and dreamed someone would rescue me.  These people deserve a special place in hell.

I tried for years to live according to everyone else's morality.
I tried to live like everyone else, to be like everyone else.
I said the right things even when I felt and thought quite differently.
And the result is a catastrophe.

---Albert Camus

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Offline GregFL

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"if you don't, she will die"
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2006, 12:32:00 PM »
hmm...175 views and only a smattering of comments.

Interesting.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2006, 12:44:00 PM »
Okay, here is the last of it.  9 days later, the St. Petersburg times followed up with the family and posted this article.

Daughter now okay after Seed incident
By Margaret Leaonard, St. Pertersburg Times Staff writer.

A Pinellas County mother who relented at the last minute and took her 16 year old daughter home from the Seed says she is not sure now that stories about her daughter's drug use were true.

In any case, the mother said Tuesday, "she's okay now."

convinced that her daughter was using drugs and "might die", the mother went with the parents of a Seedling to St. Petersburg Catholic High School to get her daughter and take her to The Seed for treatment.

The Three adults forced the girl into the car and drove her, crying and trying to escape, all the way to the Seed's warehouse building in the Tyrone Industrial Center.

"I felt sorry for her...I was upset," the mother recalled Tuesday.  "But I wanted her scared.  People were telling me stories about her.  They were telling me so much they scared me...I want her to be a respectable, happy young lady.  Drugs are not good for anybody."

In the Seed intake office, sitting at a table with her daughter and a Seed staffer, the mother recalls that she thought "I don't want this for my daughter."

"I said, 'please leave me alone and let me think,'" she related Tuesday.  "he left and came back and I  said, 'I want to talk it over with a priest.'  They said 'If you change your mind the door's open anytime.'  Then I left."

The Evening Indedendent reported that Seed director Art Barker said the Seed "refused" to admit the girl.

"they didn't refuse my daughter," the mother said.
"If they lie on this they'll lie on the other thing..I never caught my daughter (using drugs). She works. She goes to school."

Following The advice of her priest, the mother arranged counseling for her daughter.  She thinks the girl is doing well now and no longer considers putting her in The Seed.

"I don't want her in there,"  She said Tuesday.
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