Another 73/74 Seedling Grad

[GregFL]

Neil, I  didn't say you were 'fine' before going in the seed.

First, that would be admittedly awfully presumptious of me seeing how I didn't know you.  I wasn't 'fine' either my man, I had issues.

What I said was your characterization was overly harsh and very black and white.  People generally are mostly good or mostly bad, but no one is totally either.  Outside forces generally don't change that, such as other people, institutions or whatnot.

So, I am suggesting that  even tho you had problems before going in the seed, you were the same person you are now, which I assume is a pretty good guy.

If you were able to use the seed as a turning point in your life, and you didn't take away problems...congrats.

Also, thanks for getting that these experiences are various for different people.

[SurRobinHood]

What gets on my nerves about neils posts is even though he has now admited the seed wasn't perfect is his harping on how we had a choice in how it affected us. The whole point of being "programmed" was to remove us from being able to make choices for ourselves. The lack of sleep, the monotonous food, the white painted featureless environment, the constant repitition of phrases defined as THEY chose, the peer pressure groups, constant humiliation for no reason or worse being tortured because you thought there was any good in the world outside the seed. These things were all designed to erase our morals and to some extent even our personalities. This way our minds would feel the need to change our axiology to something that weould allow us to eat and sleep ie survive, as obviously we would die if we didn't. All designed to remove our ability to choose anything at all in any part of our life. I was never allowed to choose anything at all about my life. It was follow blindly repeat what was told to me or be punished for it. After the seed I suppose I could have chosen to see it as a good thing but that would have been pretty stupid of me since not one good thing came from it. Jail could have kept me off drugs more effectively while doing less harm to me. I would have learned more responsability from owning a dog than all that seed drivel. Perhaps a few lucky individuals had some choices but they were the exeption not the rule in my experience.

[Stripe]

Sometimes it takes a long,long time for the little patches of light, truth and knowledge to eek through 30+ years of self-reinforced programming.

For some, success in life means that theseed was right and they were worthless pieces of shit and BUT for being saved by Art and the program(ming), they firmly believe they would have continued down their path of personal destruction. The argument is based on a fallacy and that will become apparent soon enough.

Evenutally the veneer cracks and what we thought we believed in changes because our perscpective changes.  It's difficult, it's hurtful, and it's exhausting to uproot all you believe about yourself when you are 40+ years old.  That's how long it took me to realize what the programming did and how it affected me AND my family.  That's a darn long time to live under the influence and while it was hard to overcome, it is not impossible.  I am more at peace with my total self now that I have ever been at any other time in my post-seed life.

[GregFL]

:tup:

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-09 09:41:00, SurRobinHood wrote:

"The whole point of being "programmed" was to remove us from being able to make choices for ourselves. The lack of sleep, the monotonous food, the white painted featureless environment, the constant repitition of phrases defined as THEY chose, the peer pressure groups, constant humiliation for no reason or worse being tortured because you thought there was any good in the world outside the seed. These things were all designed to erase our morals and to some extent even our personalities.
"

I took a trip up de nile and that is what the landscape looked like...

It's been common practice for centuries and more to:
Break the compass, clean the area and install a new compass.
Nobody likes being told they need a new compass and certainly nobody likes being broken and wiped clean.
You are complaining about how they removed your old compass and denying that they tried to put in a new and better one.

Humiliation for no reason?
Torture?
These are exagerated perceptions as a result of sloppy compass removal.

I'm pretty sure there is a new compass in there somewhere. It might not be screwed down too tight if you thrashed around too much during installation. Look around real hard.  Maybe trying to ignore the sloppy installation job will help you see better. I bet you'll find it.
NAM

[SurRobinHood]

yes NAM, that does sound like a denial trip. How appropriate for you to preface your entry so aptly. No one deserves to be told that they are rotten to the core. They couldn't get to my compass to remove it. lucky me. They were not capable of intalling new morals in me because they were idiots and I could see that. I never used to use the word torture to describe the seed until I saw both houses of congress used those terms in their investigations that led to the seed loseing it's federal funding. I was kept as long as I was because they needed money. It had nothing to do with how well I could spout the dogma. I have read of old timers apologizing for keeping people back for that reason at the exact same time it was happening to me. We each deserve our individuality and no one should be aloud to dictate the morals of others. Just the thought of it makes me wonder when the thought police are comeing out of the closets. It has been common practice for centuries to "break peoples compasses" ie kill ther individuality for the gain of "society". Hitler tried it. Chairman Mao tried it. Stalin tried it. It was no better at the seed. Just history repeating itself in a more subtle and insidious way.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-09 19:31:00, Anonymous wrote:


I took a trip up de nile and that is what the landscape looked like...



It's been common practice for centuries and more to:

Break the compass, clean the area and install a new compass.

Nobody likes being told they need a new compass and certainly nobody likes being broken and wiped clean.

You are complaining about how they removed your old compass and denying that they tried to put in a new and better one.



Humiliation for no reason?

Torture?

These are exagerated perceptions as a result of sloppy compass removal.



I'm pretty sure there is a new compass in there somewhere. It might not be screwed down too tight if you thrashed around too much during installation. Look around real hard.  Maybe trying to ignore the sloppy installation job will help you see better. I bet you'll find it.

NAM"

Holy shit, that's really scary!  :scared:  Seriously.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-09 19:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-01-09 09:41:00, SurRobinHood wrote:


"The whole point of being "programmed" was to remove us from being able to make choices for ourselves. The lack of sleep, the monotonous food, the white painted featureless environment, the constant repitition of phrases defined as THEY chose, the peer pressure groups, constant humiliation for no reason or worse being tortured because you thought there was any good in the world outside the seed. These things were all designed to erase our morals and to some extent even our personalities.

"

I took a trip up de nile and that is what the landscape looked like...



It's been common practice for centuries and more to:

Break the compass, clean the area and install a new compass.

Nobody likes being told they need a new compass and certainly nobody likes being broken and wiped clean.

You are complaining about how they removed your old compass and denying that they tried to put in a new and better one.



Humiliation for no reason?

Torture?

These are exagerated perceptions as a result of sloppy compass removal.



I'm pretty sure there is a new compass in there somewhere. It might not be screwed down too tight if you thrashed around too much during installation. Look around real hard.  Maybe trying to ignore the sloppy installation job will help you see better. I bet you'll find it.

NAM"

 NAM:

Man oh man, talk about denial and the pot calling the kettle black.  You don't like what you read and I'm in denial.  Classic and funny and you make me chuckle.

...when you pull your head up and realize that you truly were repreogrammed and that it was not a good thing...feel free to call on the losers and cynics currently in denial.  

Until then, I would humbly suggest you keep looking for true north because it's not going to show up on any newly installed compass....

[Antigen]

Jesus Christ! I've heard extremely brainwashed parents say things like that. But it is truely shocking and profoundly sad on a whole other level to hear someone denounce themselves like that.

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

[SurRobinHood]

Now after that I'm havin a hard time takeing NAM seriously. Maybe it's some form of humor. He might be british. This is the internet after all.

[GregFL]

Damn, that sounds just like my father in 1973 giving one of his "your brain needed a little washin" speeches...all the while studying my face for signs of treason.


Nam, so sad for you that you think that way.

[Anonymous]

Whoa NAM !!

Sounds like your compass is working...
So's mine except that here in the SouthEastern US the declination factor doesn't let mine point directly North... Some ill-timed nooky and two marriages will atest to that!

Your compass analogy, however cute, is dangersously obtuse and flurts with taboo ideas.
If your point is that people are bitching about the treament they recieved and not moving on, I tend to agree. I sense there are some tree huggers here. BUT, regardless their perceptions and memories, they were left with confusion and pain to resolve that "a good talking to" just won't fix. Sometimes, deep wounds never heal.

Neil

[cleveland]

I think it is missing the point a little. How can we know exactly how the past influences us? It's taken me a lifetime to understand how my family influenced me.

I know that the Seed had an effect on me. But I feel that it was a detour, rather than a whole new life (good or bad). I am the person I am today that I probably would have been without the Seed. I didn't get a 'new compass' installed or the old one taken out; or if I did, it was only as long as I was there, imitating Seed behaviour.

If I look very carefully, I can see that either I am a very slightly better person for the experience, or very slightly worse off. I did gain a new understanding of the limits of human behaviour, mine and others. On the otherhand I put my life in a straightjacket for 7 years.

But that is me. Maybe some were profoundly disturbed and/or helped by the Seed experience. I don't see it that way really, although it was a powerful experience I emerged pretty much the person that I am and always was. That's what I think.

[GregFL]

On 2006-01-09 20:42:00, SurRobinHood wrote:

 He might be british.
"

Yep, that would explain it.

 :lol:

[GregFL]

On 2006-01-10 07:55:00, Anonymous If your point is that people are bitching about the treament they recieved and not moving on, I tend to agree.

Neil"

To me, it seems the seed advocates are the ones that can't move on. Hell, most of them still spout seed sayings and truisms they learned 30 years ago like "the seed was about love"  "I needed a kick in the ass" or "The seed saved my from my path of inevitable destruction" or some variant of that.

Perception is everything, perhaps.