Author Topic: Tough Love- nonsense  (Read 12295 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2006, 09:36:00 AM »
Wow Odie is right. The APT Foundation runs that place in Conn. You can see that right in the story DJ linked to. All ya gotta do is look it up at http://www.aptfoundation.org and see for yourself. Looks like DJ is the one full of crap on this one.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2006, 10:56:00 AM »
I was in that daytop unit in 98-Fox Run.  When I was there they were using the toilet seats and the signs.  All that stuff was kept in a closet in the main house and the staff would make you pick out your own toilet seat to wear.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2006, 11:26:00 AM »
Quote
I wrote the original message here. I was at Daytop Residential 1994-95

Quote
As a teenager, I was a resident in Daytop's "long-term treatment" Rhinebeck, NY and Millbrook, NY facilities. I was caught smoking pot and drinking--just your average teenage stuff. My parents dealt with it by sending me to this hellhole. Now that they are more educated and know about the program, they are remorseful. These are just a few things I witnessed while in the Daytop "program":

"Treatment" consisted of uneducated "counselors" yelling profanity and derrogatory comments at the top of their lungs--day after day, group after group. Strip searches were common--especially when perverted staff were on the schedule for that day. Residents were forced to wear signs that said things like: "I am a Liar" or "I am a dope fiend loser", etc. I was forced to wear clothes that were 2 sizes too big, because my primary counselor referred to my "slutty body" as "too image." Apparently Daytop's idea of "drug treatment" is associated with degradation and humiliation.


Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#75183

Maybe that link isn't right.  It's hard to imagine there is another "Daytop" that runs its program the exact same way as the one in NY, but has no connection.  Looks like an oversight.  I did a search for "Daytop toilet seat" and that one popped right up.  Too similar for no connection in my opinion.

Anyway, just look at the post from this girl Angela from Daytop in 1994 and 1995 who was forced to wear signs.  It definitely was happening.

Did you work at that facility?  If not how can you say that it didn't happen there?  Angela was a resident there and she says it happened.  DJ was an employee there and he says it happened.  They're both lying?  I tend to believe two separate reports from a resident and a staff over someone who never went there.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2006, 11:28:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-01-24 12:35:00, odie wrote:

"And if there was a report of a facility that had kids wearing toilet seats you know damn well that would have been splattered all over the front pages of the NY papers.

"


If the world functioned according to this idealistic perspective, this forum and most of the problems we see in the teen help industry would not exist. The media does not have the time or the inclination to report on every child abuse allegation. Unfortunately, reality is that many scandals, corrupt business dealings, and crimes fall below the watch of the public, the media, and the elected officials.

Daytop is well connected politically and has substantial financial resources. These connections and resources enable power, influence, and positive recognition. Daytop staff have been reported to CPS in the past. I worked at ADU 97-99 and know of CPS investigations, where the claims were deemed "unfounded." Or they were somehow washed under the rug, with no obvious reprocussions. Child abuse is difficult to prove--especially in cases of emotional abuse and neglect. The evidence is not obvious. Child Protective caseworkers are overworked, undereducated, and often miss the obvious. Lets face it: in a emotional abuse allegation: who will the system usually believe? A "disgruntled" kid mandated by the courts? Or the Monsignor who rubs elbows with George Pataki? Daytop has the resources needed to cover its tracks. They move suspicious staff to different facilities--sometimes across the country. Many staff do not speak up because they are either too brainwashed or too fearful of retaliation. This is reality at its best. And it allows Daytop to operate, despite its abusive and otherwise questionable tactics.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2006, 11:31:00 AM »
So when you were working there did kids wear signs and toilet seats?  Did you ever see anything like that?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2006, 11:57:00 AM »
I saw kids wearing signs that said things like "dope fiend" and "liar". Kids forced to sit on the chair, outside , in the dead of winter. Kids deprived of sleep and adequate nutrition during Marathon groups. Kids with shaved heads. Kids forced to stay awake all night and scrub the kitchen floor with a toothbrush, after staff dumped huge quantities of food coloring, flour, oil, etc. on the floor. Kids detoxing from heroin cold turkey, without adequate medical supervision-- sweating, hallucinating, shitting and wetting their pants, rather than being admitted to an appropriate detox facility. Kids with history of abuse and trauma being screamed at, belittled, and ridiculed by abusive, agressive, overzealous, and undereducated staff. Kids with sexual identity issues being called "faggot" by staff. I never saw the toliet seat thing. But since I witnessed this other crap, I would believe it to be yet another example of Daytop misconduct.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2006, 12:02:00 PM »
Wow.  It's a Daytop day on fornits.

When I posted that link I didn't look closely.  I assumed it was Daytop Village, as I have never heard of another Daytop operating in CT.  In any case, I should have looked more closely and vetted the source.  That's my fault.  My intention wasn't to mislead anyone about the facts.

I stand by my statement that they were using the toilet seats, etc on LE's during '95 and '96.  I saw it, thought it was stupid, expressed my concerns to my bosses and was told basically not to bother because this is how things are done at Daytop.

The poster who worked there in 1997-1998 said it pretty well.  I too saw CPS investigations go nowhere and occasionally the staff who complained were transferred or fired.  I also agree that making a report of "emotional abuse," as Odie says he would have done, is a fruitless endeavor.  Especially in light of the fact that Daytop is an emotional abuse machine, everyone knows it and they still get away with it even after hundreds of filed reports.

The fact remains that this type of thing was happening, that Odie is either unaware that it was or is not telling the truth about it, and that Odie first said it never happened then said it did and it was my fault for not "reporting it."  Again, Odie, you just can't have it both ways.  

And, yes, I do still think you're a mental defective and just a little bit obsessed with "getting" me.  Keep at it, son.  

As far as you "proving" that I'm "full of crap," well, it seems a few others have seen what I've seen.  You know someone's "full of crap" when they insist they know the goings-on of a place they never worked at or visited, even going as far as to call everyone who HAS worked there or was a resident there a "liar."  That full of crap individual is you, Odie.  Way to go.  Good job of completely denying reality just to take a pot-shot at me.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2006, 12:15:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-25 08:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I saw kids wearing signs that said things like "dope fiend" and "liar".
 

Quote
Kids with shaved heads.

Quote
Kids with history of abuse and trauma being screamed at, belittled, and ridiculed by abusive, agressive, overzealous, and undereducated staff.

Quote
Kids with sexual identity issues being called "faggot" by staff.

This is what Odie has to say about it:

Quote
When I was there in the 90's it was totally different from the early days of the signs, shaved heads...


Apparently NOT, Odie.  You are one full-of-shit dude.  Are you saying this poster is a liar, too?  

You say, "no signs" "no shaved heads."  Well, that's a blatant lie, Odie.  What is your interest in portraying this place to be something that it CLEARLY is not?
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Offline odie

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« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2006, 01:01:00 PM »
Geez.....Look at all those anonymous posts within minutes of each other. Coincidence? I think not. But at least you finally admitted you were wrong on something DJ.I too saw that thing about the place in Connecticut some time ago and thought it strange that they used the Daytop name but they aren't connected. I do find some of those posts intriguing though, especially the one where CPS investigations fond none of the allegations to be true. Now nobody is that good of covering up rampant abuse no matter how well connected they are. I'd think that there must have been at least one of the so called educated staff that would have come forward during the investigations and said what they saw, unless of course they saw nothing. Oh and I'll ask a simple question this time. What search engine did you use for that toilet seat thing? I used google and yahoo and the only thing I found were posts in this forum

One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2006, 01:33:00 PM »
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... umiliation

I was surprised as well to see responses.  This thread is usually pretty slow.  I think people just get pissed off when they see someone saying their experience is invalid.  Some people read and never post, but when they see something they don't like, they pop in to post.

I am curious as to who the other staffer is from '97- '98.  I'd like to see who was still around from when I was there.

I do occasionally admit wrongdoing.  That was just me not checking deeper than the front page, but I sure didn't try to deceive anyone.  Just a little to quick to the "say it" button without looking a little better.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2006, 02:34:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-01-25 10:01:00, odie wrote:

"I do find some of those posts intriguing though, especially the one where CPS investigations fond none of the allegations to be true. Now nobody is that good of covering up rampant abuse no matter how well connected they are. I'd think that there must have been at least one of the so called educated staff that would have come forward during the investigations and said what they saw, unless of course they saw nothing. "


We obviously disagree on the nature of reality and the nature of these systems. I am a realist, who has worked over 10 years in the mental health field. As a licensed clinician, I am a mandated reporter who has dealt with CPS on a frequent basis. In my experience, most abuse reports are deemed unfounded due to lack of evidence. Or CPS monitors a parent for awhile, leaving the child in the abusive environment. It is RARE that a child is removed from a parent's custody.

You are an idealist, and a Daytop advocate. Obviously you have different feelings about your Daytop experience--and you are entitled to those perceptions. However, your comments indicate that you are not well versed in the child welfare system. If you were, you would understand the reality that abuse--especially under the realm of emotional abuse and neglect--is hard to prove. The evidence is often based upon hearsay and personal perspective. This is why we hear countless stories of abusive parents, who have been investigated by CPS, and  do not have the children removed from their custody. We hear about these cases only after the most tragic incident. Usually these cases hit the media and public awareness only after the death of the child (like the recent case in NYC). If parents with no resources can avoid responsibility for abuse, then what happens with large, politically connected, and financially equipted organizations, who are accused of abuse?

FYI: Some staff members did report their experiences to CPS, otherwise CPS would not have conducted an investigation. These efforts were fruitless. This is no surprise. This is par for the course in the child welfare system.

I understand that these realities are difficult to absorb. When I started out in this field, I shared some of your idealism. I expected that systems designed to protect children did their job. The reality is: the child welfare system is bloated with bureaucracy, red tape, inefficiency, and poorly trained/overburdened caseworkers. Unfortunately, we are talking about a well intended, but damaged system that does not protect children from abuse and neglect.

DJ,
I worked at ADU 97-99, as I indicated in my above posts. What staff are you curious about?
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2006, 02:40:00 PM »
George W., Hendrick T., Mike C., Aaron (can't remember last name - MSW).  Were these guys still there when you were?

Stacy (the teacher married to Jack, Swan Lake director) works at the County Jail now.  My brother is a Lieutenent there and gives me an update on her every once in a while.  She seems to be doing well and glad to be out of DV.

Also, when I left Frank Lanza was the "acting director."  I know he's passed on now, but did he ever get removed from that facility?  He was like a little baby Hitler in the way he dealt with those of us that were clinicians and not "Daytopians."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2006, 03:04:00 PM »
George W was assistant director while I was at ADU. The last time I spoke with him, he was working toward an MSW. Someone told me he is working for SFH / Turning Point in Beacon. Aaron Barrios left ADU shortly after my departure in 1999. I think he took a position at Saint Francis Hospital. He was burnt out on the Daytop BS, just like anyone with an operating brain cell. Mike worked at Foxrun while I was there. Hendrick seemed to float in and out of various facilities (ADU, Foxrun, and Millbrook). I remember Stacy--the teacher. Frank Lanza--what a character. When I was there, he was head of "staff training" and working out of the Stone Cottage administrative building. Aaron B told me that Frank got in trouble for inappropriate discipline of the kids (there was a CPS investigation), and was forced out of his directorship position.
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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2006, 03:18:00 PM »
Thanks for the update, brother.  It's nice (but sad) to know that I'm not alone in the way I feel about that place.

Aaron nearly packed it in on his first day if I remember correctly.  He was like "What the hell IS this place?!"  He made it three more years, huh?  God bless him.

That reminds me, speaking of Aaron, he shared an office with Marie Blakey.  Do you know what became of her?  She was dating the operations guy, Bill.  I used to stop by her house sometimes to fly fish part of a nice stream that flowed behind her property (off of 9G just north of Hyde Park).  We'd have a few drinks and shoot the breeze about Daytop and whatever else.  She was a great lady.

Thanks again for the news.  I really do appreciate it.  Take care.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2006, 04:18:00 PM »
DJ, Actually, you can call me sister!

If I am not mistaken, I was Marie's replacement. I never met her.

I miss Aaron. It is a shame we lost touch. He was my primary support system in that jungle of dysfunction.

During my first few weeks of Daytop employment, I used to cry my eyes out every night after work. The kids, and a few staff, were the light in a dark and disturbing environment. I just stayed to collect the paycheck, as I was saving money for grad school at the time. Nonetheless, it was a good learning experience. I would never refer someone to a TC, for example.

Speaking of abuse allegations: there used to be a website, created by a former resident, that criticized Daytop. It included testimony from former residents about various abuses. I remember reading stories about a wacko director in an adult Sullivan County facility that forced people to lie in make shift graves in the dirt basement. There was a lawsuit, but I cannot find anything on the web about it. The critical website is no longer online. According to the website adminstrator, Daytop pulled some legal trick and got the site removed. Did you ever see it? Aside from this message board, it was the only critique of Daytop on the web. Given Daytop's history, I find that amazing.

Are you still working in the field? Perhaps we have crossed paths somewhere in the Hudson Valley.
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