Daughter out of control again ....

[Anonymous]

Truth Searcher:

Would you be willing to share the name of the program your daughter attended?

I agree with others that I want you to attempt to sit down and talk about what your daughter wants to do.  You can't force her to attend high school, but she needs to be doing something besides sitting around in her pajamas all day.  I was kind of confused about you saying there are so many options and no restrictions?  Do you have a set of household rules?  Do you just not want to get back into the confrontation thing, or is she just completely immune now to your words and actions?

A young woman I care very much about is in an RTC, her third in the same system.  She has been diagnosed with a personality disorder, and I believe that she needs a tremendous amount of therapy from a specialist, not what she is getting at these schools.  However, since she is a borderline she is currently hating me and I have no legal say in her placement.  Our "child" is also a cutter, and I used to feel that she did it because it was goth-fashionable, but have come to believe that it is a desperate attempt to either mitigate pain or to feel anything because she is so dissociative as to be numb.

Have you found a therapist at home for your daughter?  Will she go?  From your posts, it sounds like she might be extremely depressed
and having trouble adapting to an unstructured daily existence.  But perhaps she is just completely defiant and acting out, feeling that you can not do anything to control her?

Our "child" will be 17 this year, and she has been in these programs for two years already.  My heart aches for her and I wish I could bring her home to try again with more distance and greater resolve to just let her do whatever she needs to do without it getting me into an uproar.  I wouldn't let her drive the car, use/abuse my stuff, steal from me or otherwise take advantage, but I would back completely away from trying to make her go to school, not to have promiscuous sex, etc....I can't change any of that. Although a lot of her risky behavior scares the hell out of me, the more I react or try to enforce behavior, the more ways she finds to take risks.  And she always finds a way.   I think you can require that she leave your house when you leave in the morning, and lock the door at a certain hour at night (although most teenagers can break into a house quicker than we oldsters can locate our keys)

I lurk here a lot, too, because I want to help but can not, because I believe large group awareness training is not a way to deal with psychological issues, and because I believe oppositional defiant behavior is a basic tenant of adolescence, but we all have to find a better way of dealing with it. The idea of your daughter going to live with a relative is a good one -- any options there?  I don't know how you could "get her" a job, as another poster suggested, but I think a job or school would be a requirement.  You may be required by law to keep her in your home until she is 18, but if she wants anything other than basic food, necessities and generic hygiene products, she needs to be doing something.

Just MHO

Sylvia

[Anonymous]

So I guess if you post anon you can't edit your post.  I see that it was not truth searcher who posted about the no restrictions.  Sorry

[Truth Searcher]

Wow.  I really am grateful for the advise.
I realize how angry she is at her father and me for placing her in a treatment center.  I have explained that if it was wrong that I am deeply sorry.  But, I have also explained that I just did not know how else to help her.  We both cried.  

She just stopped to collect a few of her possessions.  I told her to keep her cell phone and that I would be glad to pay for her rx meds if she decides to stay on them.  She doesn't know where she is going to live.  She doesn't know how she will survive.  I assured her that the door is always open and that we love her very much.  I guess she has to work through this the best way she can.

But, still, my heart is broken.[ This Message was edited by: Truth Searcher on 2005-12-30 13:22 ]

[Truth Searcher]

Anon/Sylvia~
I am not sure where you got the idea that there are too many options and few restrictions .... ?
Of course there are house rules ....
No drugging
Attend high school and get passing grades (not too difficult as she is bright)
Attend church with us once on Sunday morning
Help out around the house with chores
Offer basic respect and civility to other family members

Pretty basic.  I don't have a problem with confrontation.  But, she doesn't enjoy it too much.  She usually bolts when there are any conflicts.  And she is just plain being defiant "I will not ...".

I know my daughters cutting is not attention seeking.  It is a real cry for help.  She too, has been labeled "borderline", but I'm not much for labels.  My desire is to help her find healthier ways of coping with stress and the shit life throws at us.

Living with a relative is not an option.  At least not one she is willing to consider.  She wants to be "foot loose and fancy free".  That means no adults trying to steer her in any direction ...  so at this point I see her flopping at friends houses till their parents get tired of her ...

Sorry if I'm ranting on and on ... I hurt for her.  I hurt for me.  I hurt for our family.  I just want her to be a happy well adjusted person ...

[Anonymous]

Truth Searcher:

My heart aches for you.  Maybe she will stay with friends for a while and return.  Or maybe she will forge herself a life.

I left home when I was 17 and was estranged from my folks for a few years in my 20s.  We may not have a perfect relationship now, but my parents and I talk, visit each other, love each other, mostly accept each other.

I went through some things I would never want my daughter to go through but I survived.  Your daughter can, too.  And you can help her get there while keeping healthy boundaries.  

I'm so sorry that she is so angry with you, but I can understand being at wit's end and though many posters on this site scoff, I really was terrified about our kid ending up dead.  In the next few days.  We had exhausted every local option.

The fact that you could talk a little and cry together today may be a bigger breakthough than you realize.  Once she has a little space and time away, it may be easier for you to talk to each other, maybe get some family counseling.

Telling her you were there for her and love her was the best thing you could have done.  She isn't as young and unable to care for herself as you think she is, and she isn't as old and invincible as she thinks she is.  Her friends will only let her camp for so long without helping with rent, etc., so she will be out there trying to find a job.  This could be a real eye-opener.  It could make school look good!  

Hang in there, troubled truth searcher.  I have tears in my eyes and am sending good thoughts and high hopes out for you and your daughter.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 10:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"  I went into one of these programs in the mid 80's at age 16.  Pot and alcohol were the drugs I had used.

 I had not ONE SIP Of any alcohol for the following 10 years, nor did I smoke or do anything else.  At age 26, I had champagne with my fiance. Then didn't drink any alcohol again for 5 years.  I now drink maybe 3 drinks a year.

  My experience in the program was good.  No relapse, no arrest, better grades, a college degree. To each his own."

If you were in programs in the mid '80s and are now 26, you were about 6 when in the program!  Nice try, program troll.

[Anonymous]

Just a suggestion....

It sounds like you value your church based on your requirement that your daughter attend, but maybe that is too much for her right now.  Why make a hypocrite out of her if you know she's having sex, etc.?  Would you be willing to let her skip church but let her know she's always welcome?  It might be a way to meet her halfway if she comes back home.

My heart goes out to you.  I wish my parents would've sat me down and had the talk you had with her about the program not being the best choice.  That would have meant everything to me.

Good luck.  You are in my thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Just let your daughter get laid, you dont want a sexually frustrated teen! They are the WORST!!!SEX IS GOOD FOR THE MIND,BODY, AND SOUL..Just use a rubber

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 05:45:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"Highschool is by and large bullshit. Youre forced to memorize and regurgitate useless information you forget over the summer until you start college anyway, and its mostly about enduring the social/mental bullshit and stress of all the conflicting deadlines, arbitrary or USELESS assignments and all the social bullshit, plus conforming to some stupid new dresscode rule or KNEE JERK THING TO FREAK OUT ABOUT OF THE YEAR.



I dropped out of HS, and the very next day I went to get my GED. Its true! They announced i had to sit in some classroom for 12 hours before I could take it tho, so I aced practice tests and just tutored other people.



I got 99th percentile on it, and Im now in the science major transfer program at Wake Tech. Im BROKE anyway so this is cheaper... :silly:  



I also work on my own cars, built every computer I've owned, myself, starting at 10, and I've networked my own house when I was 15. I also had to basically keep my highschool's computer network, er, working, on my own, including jimmying the lock to the server closet to turn it on because the guy who worked on it intentionally set the BIOS for default power setting to "off" so if the power flickered, we had to wait a week for him to show up and turn it back on :wave:

If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine- but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good- and CARES about any of it- to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.

--Frank Zappa, American musician

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-12-30 05:46 ]"

And I have to ask - - what the hell does any of this have to do with anything?  Trying to prove you have some intellect?  Although it is hardly "proof" - - anyone can claim anything they can type, ya know?

Are you that insecure? If so, that is incredible sad...............

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-30 14:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Just a suggestion....



It sounds like you value your church based on your requirement that your daughter attend, but maybe that is too much for her right now.  Why make a hypocrite out of her if you know she's having sex, etc.?  Would you be willing to let her skip church but let her know she's always welcome?  It might be a way to meet her halfway if she comes back home.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with this. When I hit 14 and was to formally become a member of our church, I told my pastor that I couldn't take the oath. I simply didn't believe the doctrin as taught and couldn't honestly swear that I did. He was fine with that. Made sure to remind me that plenty of people turn up at Sunday services and other events who weren't members and that I was always welcome to do the same or ask his advice or prayers or what have you; that it changed nothing. Good man, Don Taws. Really, one of my early heros.

My mom, on the other hand, freaked out! When I declined to keep going to church with her, that set her on a mission. It meant all sorts of things to her that simply weren't true. If Don wouldn't be on her side, why then she'd just keep knocking on doors till she found adequate support for her convictions.

It ended very badly.

My heart goes out to you.  I wish my parents would've sat me down and had the talk you had with her about the program not being the best choice.  That would have meant everything to me.



Good luck.  You are in my thoughts."

Yeah, me too. My dad and I did have that talk. And it did mean the world to me! But only for one reason; he actually MEANT it! Once we had resolved to bury the hatchet, it was buried good and deep. He quit trying to fix me. He quit trying to manipulate me into doing what he thought best.

He wasn't just waiting for me to fall on my ass and come crawling to him for help. He went back to plan A, pre program, expecting me to succeed.

So when he asked how I was doing, I could tell him without worry. It wasn't a trick and he wouldn't ever again override my will to 'help' me. I could ask his advice, brag about a new job or whine about how much work and expense kids really are. That always made him laugh. He always wished 6 kids on me, all girls and all just like me. I could just drop in on him and have some coffee and let him play w/ his granddaughter and just shoot the shit about life, politics (his and my favorite topic) or the weather.

Absolutely priceless, I tell ya! There is just nothing in this world that can replace a sincere welcome in a safe home by someone who you really can trust. Nothing!

When I started as a federal narcotics agent, the budget that we were working with, it was less than $5 million a year, and there was only 125 agents for the entire world to work the narcotic trade that we were fighting in those days.  Times have changed.  The gluttony has grown.
--Nick Navarro, former Broward, FL Sherrif

_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 14:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Just let your daughter get laid, you dont want a sexually frustrated teen! They are the WORST!!!SEX IS GOOD FOR THE MIND,BODY, AND SOUL..Just use a rubber"

I completely agree with this post here.

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-30 14:58:00, Anonymous wrote:



And I have to ask - - what the hell does any of this have to do with anything?  Trying to prove you have some intellect?  Although it is hardly "proof" - - anyone can claim anything they can type, ya know?

No, I think it's just about not sweating the petty things. So often, school comes between parents and kids. Really, it's nowhere near as important as the career educators and their behaviorist mentors think it is. Most adults just never question the status quo, can't imagine a life without the 12 year sentence. That's why so many of them imagine the worst and lose their grip when their kid has had enough of the whole thing. Parents, remember, school is not what it used to be. We're still making kids to the same specs. But highschools is just a whole lot more messed up than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 15:28:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-12-30 14:58:00, Anonymous wrote:





And I have to ask - - what the hell does any of this have to do with anything?  Trying to prove you have some intellect?  Although it is hardly "proof" - - anyone can claim anything they can type, ya know?

No, I think it's just about not sweating the petty things. So often, school comes between parents and kids. Really, it's nowhere near as important as the career educators and their behaviorist mentors think it is. Most adults just never question the status quo, can't imagine a life without the 12 year sentence. That's why so many of them imagine the worst and lose their grip when their kid has had enough of the whole thing. Parents, remember, school is not what it used to be. We're still making kids to the same specs. But highschools is just a whole lot more messed up than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb

"

Oh I understand that....and that may have been expressed in the first line of the post.  But all the other extraneous stuff?  All the "proof" of how supposedly brilliant the poster was? What is the purpose of that?  Just seems to show incredibile insecurity - and it is sad in its intensity.

Personally, I think high schools have "dumbed down" in the area of responsibility.  They treat the students like little kids, with no responsibility at all - which I believe is a mistake.  

But I do disagree with some of what you say.  So far as the actually intrinsic value of high school - yeah, it leaves a lot to be desired.  But it is still a gauge for determining who gets in college, what job you get, etc etc.  Colleges and employers don't know you as an individual, and they have to make their selection based on something.  High grades and performance is a "common denominator" for these people.

Is it right?  Is it the best measurement?  Maybe not - but the reality is that is is one of the few "yardsticks" to measure by.  And until there is something better, it will remain important for that aspect if nothing else.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 14:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Just let your daughter get laid, you dont want a sexually frustrated teen! They are the WORST!!!SEX IS GOOD FOR THE MIND,BODY, AND SOUL..Just use a rubber"

:nworthy:   :lol:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-30 13:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-30 10:12:00, Anonymous wrote:


"  I went into one of these programs in the mid 80's at age 16.  Pot and alcohol were the drugs I had used.


 I had not ONE SIP Of any alcohol for the following 10 years, nor did I smoke or do anything else.  At age 26, I had champagne with my fiance. Then didn't drink any alcohol again for 5 years.  I now drink maybe 3 drinks a year.


  My experience in the program was good.  No relapse, no arrest, better grades, a college degree. To each his own."

If you were in programs in the mid '80s and are now 26, you were about 6 when in the program!  Nice try, program troll."

Actually 26+5=31. So by actually reading the post, 31 is the youngest he can be. 31-16=15, 15 is a pretty fesible age to be placed in a program. Reading comprehension seems to be a problem around here  :cool: That doesn't mean this person isn't infact a troll though. Just means you didn't comprehend what you were reading  :wink: