SEND ME TO FLORIDA

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-28 12:42:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:Most of us ? speaking of those whom were incarcerated within the program, wherever that may have been located ? were angry and bitter before we ever stepped foot inside the building.

Bullshit. Most of us were just fine. Our parents were a bit crazy. Any sane, normal person would respond with anger and indignation at the very tone and content of a typical intake 'interview', never mind the strip search.

I won?t say that was the case of every single person, anymore than we could state unequivocally that every person there had a ?drug problem?.

Baby steps...

I fell into the former category and never cared for the harder drugs of my contemporaries ? pot and alcohol were my choices. Many of us, obviously, retain our anger and bitterness, and to what end? Where has that anger gotten us?

Well, so far, we've collectively been able to take away the Straight, Inc. name (thanks very much to that crazy bastard, Richard Bradbury w/ much support and assistance from that even crazier tweed coat, Arnold Trebach) And the remaining programs operating under various aliases around the country labour under constant bad PR and frequent licensing and criminal investigations. Have you seen the latest on KHK? How'd that happen? They'll be shut down eventually.

So, as to a having a rational attitude I will only say that nothing worthy is ever accomplished through thoughtlessness, or rashness, nor are obsessive anger and bitterness the attributes of a healthy personality.

True enough. However, sustained protest, healthy dialog by way of every available media seem to do the trick.

I speak of the Semblers because as one of the original inmates I knew him

Did the Semblers take home newcomers? Was their house secured? (locked or bolted windows, etc.) If you actually wittnessed Melvin and Betty taking part in false imprisonment, you could (if you had the sack for it) publicly dispel the myth that they were just upper management and had no idea what was going on right under their noses for all those years.

But you won't cause you're either a coward or tragically brainwashed.

It was their job to assure that I turned out a solid productive citizen instead of the out of control monster they were unleashing upon society, and they failed. I hold no ill will toward any of the Semblers, ultimately our parents signed each one of us in there, not the Semblers, and it is the parents whom are responsible, or the ?criminals? as you say.

Yeah, thought so. Tragically brainwashed.

I am directly responsible for a single male child, who is being raised with the kind of love, respect and attention I certainly never enjoyed and if I am allowed to live until his adulthood can guarantee that he will not wind up anywhere but in college. I also belong to the PTA, SAC and coach every youth sport seemingly known to man for the last four years and have always adhered to my principles and have personally impacted more than two hundred youth in that time, although to what degree only time and God will tell.

Frightening. How many futures have you destroyed by enforcing warrantless piss testing policies and by spreading bogus DARE propaganda asif it were the Gospel? Countless, I'm sure.

As for this not being about us anymore I would agree with that and that is why I take the responsibility to volunteer to my community in whatever way I can, not necessarily with an eye towards keeping kids out of straight but if that is a by-product of my work then so be it. Again, ultimately it is the parents duty to parent, not the peers, not the TV, not the schools ? the mother and father must do their jobs, if they fail it is their blame.



Nice talking to you

"

In what was once the freest country in all of human history, it's also our job as citizens to oversee and direct our governement. The Semblers and their associates via DFAF, DPNA, DATIA and a long, long list of other alter egos are pilfering public funding to carry out their progrom on our kids. If that doesn't piss you off, check yourself for a pulse.

This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
         
http://www.aidoann.com/guncontrol.html' target='_new'>Adolph Hitler

[001010]

Enough with the caps already, please.

Other than that, best of luck to you in Florida. :wave:

...and in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.

(Jury nullification. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!)
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/VC/visitor_info/creating/constitution.htm' target='_new'>Declaration of Rights, PA Constitution

[sammiegirl]

Wow all the support I might be ready to go sooner than later. See you in Florida

The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.".
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President

[fedelta_a_verita]

[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:48 ]

[Anonymous]

Once again, it's all about you. You and your lawsuits, you and your photos, you and your vigil. Why don't you travel to the new Straight in Milford, OH instead? It's the same program with a different name, and the abuse allegations are tumbling out of there like clockwork.

[Anonymous]

fedelta, A personality is not completely finished forming until around the age of 16 years old. The environment that the child is surounded with is what helps the child to attain the personality that they will carry for the rest of that persons life. I can not believe that all Straight kids had psyco problems before Straight. most all kids go through different stages of lieing, cheating, stealing, drugs and if a child does not go through things like this, I would then be worried about that child.

[Anonymous]

lol

  Oh let Sammie come on down to the sunshine state and sit her ass outside for hours, days weeks.  I may even drive by and take a picture.  Don't the Semblers spend a lot of time traveling and out of the country?!  Funny if she sits in front of an empty (secured) house.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-28 15:16:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:


This abuse is still going on. Agreed. Now what? What are you going to do about it? What can you do about it? Execute the Semblers, murder the Newton whoevers and beat the hell out of Helen whosits? Lobby to enact legislation to forbid any and all straight like programs from ever existing? To what end? What happens when you accomplish all of this? Straight did not exist because of the Semblers, Bush or anyone else, it existed and thrived because parents put their children in there,

That's why, if you'll bother to take the time to actually look around these fora, we ARE trying to educate parents NOT to shuffle the responsibility for their problems off to strangers.  

What will prevent these parents from allowing their children to develop into the kinds of uncontrollable, uncommunicative and rebellious people they became and which led their parents to place them in an environment outside of their homes to begin with?

Here, you should understand this since it smacks of your "area of expertise".  You're assuming facts not in evidence. :roll:   It appears that the vast majority of these kids were fairly normal, albeit rebellious (and when did rebellious become the big bad boogeyman to parents?  Ever taken a look at the list of druggie "symptoms" these places list?  Shit, you could apply all of them to almost all teens.  Here's a clue......rebellion is a normal part of growing up[/b]) kids who, if left to their own devices would have more than likely turned out OK.

I don?t really care about the Semblers of the world ?

That's a damn shame cause they're influencing your life more than you're aware of.  http://www.dfaf.org/

Rage at the Semblers will not assuage those who suffered from straight,

Actually, it does to a certain degree.  We were never allowed to speak anything negative about the people who were directly responsible for the abuse.  Feels DAMN good to be able to do it now.

 

and what will these poor creatures do when the Semblers, and the rest, pass? Whom will they blame for the failures in their lives then?

Again, assuming facts not in evidence.  You've read what, maybe a few posts here and you assume that everyone is blaming them for whatever failures in life they have.  Untrue and if you spend some time actually reading here before going off on a tirade and trying to phsyco-analyze us all you'd see that.

How many of these children were perfectly normal, conforming, loving, non-rebellious, non-drug using, proper young boys and girls when they went into the program? Were any of them? Or did they all have some serious issues?

That whole 'facts in evidence' thing applies here too.  How the hell would you presume to know what was going on with ANYone before they were incarcerated in that hellhole?  Again, most of us were fairly normal teens whose parents were freaked by the 'drug war' mentality and scared shitless of things they shouldn't have been only to have such reputable people play right the fuck into those fears.

Look around these boards, you don?t need to go any further than this thread, to see there are some folks with some very serious mental psychosis.

Glad you're able to give such a detailed diagnosis from a few posts Dr. Frist.

Everything from gross fantasization to deluded paranoia to serious anger management problems. This didn?t happen because of straight, straight is long over with, those issues were simmering there before and have merely found a focal point in their expression in blaming everything that went awry in their already pitiful lives on straight.

How the hell would you know?

 

It is weakness of mind and character to be controlled by a past, particularly a past in which most of us had little to no control.

Jeeeez, do we really have to go over this again??  Most of us have moved passed the anger at what was done to us (not all, but most) NOW we'er angry that they still have influence over our lives through policy (see DFAF f/k/a Straight Inc.  http://www.dfaf.org/  )

Do you recognize that these problems in parenting are not going to go away and are merely trying to make parents aware that straight, etc. is not the way to go, or do you deny the fact that there are problems with the parent child relationship which exist?

Yes, there are problems between parents and kids.  Always have been always will be but there was a time when parents didn't ship them off to a warehouse to be 'fixed'.  That didn't spring up til the Great Drug War came along and Sembler/Straight/Newton etc have been and continue to be a huge part of the problem.

No one, not here or anywhere else you will find, can relate more about being abused than I

Gawwwwd but you're a sanctimonious asshole.

and yet I have heard no valid solutions here. I hear plenty of angst, anger, rage, hatred, loads of self-pity, unadulterated psychotic rantings

Yeah well, guess ya hear what ya want to hear.

 

but no one pin pointing the exact causes of what made straight an alternative many parents turned to or how THAT can be changed.

Really?   Then you haven't been reading much on here.

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-28 15:16:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:

 What drove them to think they had no other alternative but to have their offspring committed?

A combination of things. For one, taboos held over from our Puritanical roots. They used to burn women at the stake for ingesting mildewed rye, ya know. So we are making some progress over the long term, I think.

But those old vestiges of the mighty potent Catholic guilt run soo deep. It's a natural for American propaganda going back to around the 40's. And it's been very effective and ever useful. So this same class of people (according to Twain, the only distinct criminal class in America in his day) keep harping on the same fears, ever escalating the perception of threat and the costs (tangible and intangible) to defend us all against this growing hobgoblin they've created.

So by 1970, the Summer of Manson, when the Seed opened up for business, the whole media and every PTA was screetching bloody murder about the youth drug culture. Some called it a communist plot. So that changed the message straight to "And look now! The hobgobblin is after your children!!!"

Least ways, that's what my dad told me.
 

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-28 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Once again, it's all about you. You and your lawsuits, you and your photos, you and your vigil. Why don't you travel to the new Straight in Milford, OH instead? It's the same program with a different name, and the abuse allegations are tumbling out of there like clockwork.   "

Leave the chick alone why don't you. It's too damn cold up here to camp in front of anywhere.

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-12-28 15:16:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
This abuse is still going on. Agreed. Now what? What are you going to do about it? What can you do about it? Execute the Semblers, murder the Newton whoevers and beat the hell out of Helen whosits? Lobby to enact legislation to forbid any and all straight like programs from ever existing? To what end? What happens when you accomplish all of this? Straight did not exist because of the Semblers, Bush or anyone else, it existed and thrived because parents put their children in there, McDonalds doesn?t serve their burgers if no one eats them. Why did they do this?

Actually responsibility is the entire point here and the most relevant things we?ve been talking about. I don?t really care about the Semblers of the world ? they?re typical parasites feeding off of the misery of others, they were here yesterday, they?re here now and they?ll be here tomorrow they will never go away. What I care about are the realities of the causes that allowed straight to exist and by extension the Semblers to thrive. Rage at the Semblers will not assuage those who suffered from straight, and what will these poor creatures do when the Semblers, and the rest, pass? Whom will they blame for the failures in their lives then?"

Out of curiosity, what would you say to rape victims who want to see the perpetrator pay for his crime with imprisonment? What would you say to the family who lost a loved one due to murder who wants to see the murderer pay for his crimes in prison? My point??? Easy....The point of the justice system is to punish those who break the law and to deter others from committing crime. So, by bringing public attention to the Sembler's/Miller Newton etc. the wheels of justice just might begin to do its job...to punish those who abused children in the name of help (Sembler/Newton) and to deter others who may follow in their footsteps. If the justice system doesnt come through, then media attention might create public humiliation...a different kind of justice altogether. Will this change the fact that other greedy bastards out there might try to capitalize on the child abuse/treatment industry? Probably not...the point is to hold those who are caught accountable for the laws they have violated.

If the world applied your logic, there would be no point in having a justice system would there?...cause we all know people will always commit crimes...so why bother going after murderers and rapists since it will not stop potential criminals and will not wipe them off the face of the earth?  :roll: As for you blaming the parents (the paying customers) as being the reason those places exist...well if someday these abusive hell holes are wiped off the face of the earth, or at the very least, there numbers are greatly reduced, then parents will be forced to do their job...be parents!!!! Hmmm...what a novel concept!

Complacency allows these monsters to remain free to terrorize generation after generation of children. If you chose to be complacent, then fine, but that is your choice...and if someone chooses to go the other route, activism, that is also their choice....Activism is a healthy way to redirect anger...

You go be an activist any way you chose Sammy!

[Antigen]

Fedelta_ver_Non, can't you see what we're doing about it? We're employing the IVth Estate of government to seek redress.

Got a problem wit dat? Oh yeah? Well! Ya mudda wears Army boots!  ::bwahaha2::

One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics.
--Stephen Hawking, English scientist

[fedelta_a_verita]

[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:50 ]

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-12-28 16:20:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:

Wait a minute, your equating rape and murder victims, I?m assuming you are speaking of those victims whom have done nothing to in anyway contribute to those events or put themselves in situations where those crimes occur, to what was done to children placed willingly in straight by their parents  and you?re assailing MY logic? On top of which you?re going to attempt to lecture ME on our judicial/legislative system? No.

Next."

I certainly did not equate murder and rape victimes to straight victims (however, some kids were raped in straight)...it was an anolagy to make a point....as educated as you must be, I cant believe you didnt see the obvious...let me be more precise...our justice system punishes child abusers right??? Yeah that's what I thought....There are mechanisms in place to employ public humilation for child abusers right...yeah I thought so..
 
And yes I was speaking of "victims whom have done nothing to in anyway contribute to those events or put themselves in situations where those crimes occur"....children UNWILLINGLY put in straight WERE victims...none of us chose to be abused and did NOTHING to put themselves in a situation...they were just being children! Yes rebellious ones, but since when does being rebellious mean that its okay to abuse those who dare rebel? Would you dare make the claim that children who ARE abused deserved to be abused cause they might have made a few mistakes along the line somewhere? Parents willingly put children in the program, the children went  UNWILLINGLY! And yes I am lecturing you on the judicial system, since in school you prolly slept through the lecture that taught that child abuse is a crime punishable by the legal system in this country.[ This Message was edited by: nonconformistlaw on 2005-12-28 16:36 ]

[Antigen]

On 2005-12-28 16:20:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:

I?m assuming you are speaking of those victims whom have done nothing to in anyway contribute to those events or put themselves in situations where those crimes occur, to what was done to children placed willingly in straight by their parents

Who's will? And then what happened? Me? I was worldly enough to just turn and walk away when I really couldn't stand any more. Only the planning stage and first hours were really stressful or difficult. The rest was cake.

And I knew how to talk the talk w/o letting it seep all the way in. I had been doing it since I was a little kid, after all. So I didn't get beat down mentally or physically anywhere near as much as some kids. I also knew all of the signs of when your parents are thinking about putting you in the Program. I had lived that 5 times already w/ my family in the Seed. So I knew when to run, and that was the smoking gun; it backfired.

Up until then, I didn't dare do anything remotely close to any sane reason to have me locked up. Most of the kids who turned up on front row were just like that; no fucking clue what was going on, just terrified children who had stepped into the Twilight Zone.

Most of them had no idea how to avoid the rough treatment. You probably have little idea what sometimes happened to chronicly labeled misbehavers. As a child, totally sold on the doctrine and dogma, few of us really did any critical thinking about that.

As an adult, now? Come on! Think about it. Put your kid in that position for months at a stretch. Now think about some of the personalities and histories of some of the losers who, like cream and bastards, rose to the top in that institution. Virgil Newton didn't invent, or even radically influence, Straight Inc. It was already there, he was just a bit too entheusiastic an evangelist so they tossed him to the wolves, austensibly.

Some kids were raped in there. Some were starved. Many were beaten, medically neglected, tormented with sleep deprivation for days at a stretch.

I saw a guy stood up and publicly humiliated for having cut up his wrists. I think I was just coming in from school when the confrontation was going on. And there stood Dennis D., one of my many crushes, sobbing pittiously. He'd been on IVth Phase that morning, I think. And here he was, fresh from the hospital, being castigated for being weak, for seeking attention, taking the easy way out... and this big old, friendly, simple hick from Ohio just sobbed.

All of us were forced to focus constantly and intensely on all of that. If you don't pick up the cues, if you're not paying attention with all of your awareness, if you're slow to confront or somehow outa left field, it could all come crashing down... any moment...

I'd rather be raped, frankly, and too many have chosen to murder themselves. It's absolutely a false dilema to frame the argument as an if/or choice. Fact is, the 90% of our contemporaries who Art and Mel both assured us would land up deadinsaneorinjail have not, but a significant preportion of his supposed beneficiaries have.

But Betty Sembler just swore under oath a few weeks ago that he's a dear friend and a wonderful human being. And she and Mel both brag, to this day, about having 'saved 12,000 children'. They're frauds.

Never mind that they buy into their own bullshit more than anybody else does. This is not about intent or primal evil or any such thing. I'm not seeking revenge, only redress.

These people have no solid logical idea about drugs, drug policy or drug rehabilitation. And they're some of the most fucked up parents on the planet. Therefore, they should have no credibility or authority in areas of drug policy or child rearing. In fact, the most frightening picture I've seen in a good many years was one of Helen Peterman clutching a young child. I reminded me of something out of an old Bela Legosi flick.  :scared:


I think that if more people understood how fucking ugly this drug war ideology really is just under the surface, they'd quit buying. It's like seeing sausage made.
 

On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat