Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Another WWASP death
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-21 07:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"WWASP and public school don't compare. It's not comparing apples and apples, it's more like comparing apples and a cult. Because WWASP is a cult, an abusive cult. No comparison, sorry. Take your misdirection elsewhere. :wave: "
--- End quote ---
Yes they do, if you compare number of deaths as a percentage of the whole than you can compare any populations to each other, cults, theraputic schools, high schools, grammer schools collages, missionaries, baseball teams etc.
That the power of ratios.
How many kids per 1,000 die in boarding schools vs say inter city schools? How many per 1,000 in cults? How many fireman die per 1,000 each year? Of course they are all different populations but on that one level you can compare one constant, then you can justify the results by saying "Well sure more fireman get hurt because they are running into burning buildings etc." But the data speaks for itself and it is comparable data.
I think it could help explain and bring a stronger message to prospective parents, you shouldnt discard it so quickly.
Anonymous:
No, you are asking the wrong questions and attempting to lump these abusive cults in with activities that don't compare. It's okay, program minds need to keep spinning themselves around to make sense of the world around them, we all understand.
Again, how many public schools MURDER their students?
How many fire departments MURDERED their cadets?
How many kids were at school against their will, taken in by kidnappers? How many firefighters?
First - you will never be able to compile these numbers, so you are pursuing a blind alley (which I think you are doing on purpose).
Second - these facilities do harm that is immesuarable even if the child is not killed. Emotional stress, emotional abuse, physcological torture are all activities included in the price of WWASP. Suicide is a tragic byproduct of this corrupt and fear-mongering system called WWASP.
--- Quote ---But the data speaks for itself and it is comparable data.
--- End quote ---
There is no comparable data to programs becuase they are in a category all their own. Every comparison you list here is an accountable system. Schooling, Firefighting... they keep records and have requirements, training, etc. WWASP has none. It is an unregulated business who murders children behind closed doors, accountable to no one.
If you want to spend your time compiling data that you will never be allowed to get, by all means, go for it. Personally, as with many other ex-studnets, we know first hand the horror of these faciltiies and don't feel the need to compile numbers to convince parents otherwise. If parents ignore the true stories of horror, and ignorantly ask for statistics... god help their child.
TheWho:
I guess I am not being clear, I appologize. I work with data for a living, but sometimes I dont communicate very well. Let me step back, lets say that these cults are murdering our kids as you say and we are measuring deaths. We look at national data that tells us that one child in 1,000 will die each year in our public school system which is 0.1%. Now we dont know if these kids were murdered by their teachers or just died naturally, all we know is that they died.
Now if we compare this to other schools WWASP or other RTCs and see that it is substantially higher say one child in 100 or 1%, then that would be compelling evidence which would make parents or authorities sit up and take notice. Murdered or not, these kids are dieing !!!!
This is the first step, if the cults are out of balance with the rest of the system, people will want to know why, and stop sending there kids there until an investigation is done nad force regulations and records to be kept etc.
But one needs to start somewhere, believe me these number are comparable, they are used in court cases and libel suits everyday, and in fact you cant make a case without them.
--- Quote ---Personally, as with many other ex-studnets, we know first hand the horror of these faciltiies and don't feel the need to compile numbers to convince parents otherwise
--- End quote ---
I find it hard to believe that you witnessed this horror first hand but find no need to convince parents not to send their kids to one of these places. If someone abused me or killed one of my friends I would do everything I could to expose these people!!
--- Quote ---so you are pursuing a blind alley (which I think you are doing on purpose).
--- End quote ---
I am not going down a blind alley, if there is data to be had, it will help the cause. What I dont understand is why you and others are so willing to turn a blind eye or get angry at the thought of collecting numbers. Somehow I suspect you may be part of one of these programs and are just trying to step on the idea of exposing the truth
Anonymous:
Now that we both think the other is a program employee I'm not sure this conversation will get very far, but I will try to explain my position better. :razz:
It's offensive to me and others I'm sure that you even compare these programs to public schools. I've been to public school for 10 years, and spent close to two years in various programs. There is NO comparison. Anyone who was at a program knows this. (violence in school is amongst the teens themsleves, not an adult abusing their position to emotionally or physically harm a child)
Personally, knowing how a lot of programs are structured, I know it will be close to impossible to gather the data you are after. I would love it if you could show the world how abusive, murderous and devestating these programs are. BUT - I don't think you can obtain this data, hence my reasoning why you are pointing people down blind alleys.
I am anti-WWASP, anti-PROVO because I was at both these programs and know first hand how terrible they really are. That is my position. If I am misunderstanding your position, I apologize. Perhaps we are on the same side of this argument.
So no more discouragement from me. If you think you can produce this data, I am all for it. :tup: :tup:
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-20 18:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's way more than two, that's the point of listing the names for current and prospective parents:
1. Valerie Heron, Tranquility Bay suicide while at program
2. Ryan Grasso, death at home after SCL 12/12/05
3. Corey Murphy, suicide after Paradise Cove
4. Chris Sutton, on trial for hiring hitman to murder parents (mom killed, dad left blind from gunshot injuries)- count mom as a casualty
5. Girl at SCL who hung herself while at SCL- name?
6. Christopher Landre, suicide after Paradise Cove
7. Randi Koetz, suicide after Casa by the Sea 4/10/05
8. Bryan Richardson, murdered by brother after Casa by the Sea 2/27/05
9. Robert Carter Evans, suicide 4/10/05
10. Michael "Romeo" Perry, Murder (on death row in Texas). Casa By The Sea
Keep this list going, people.
"
--- End quote ---
What's with all the AFTER the program stuff? I know Landre didn't complete the program and still had many issues he never had the opportunity to heal. Isn't that why his father is now helping keep the kids in until they have had the time to heal with his nonprofit Landre Foundation? Could it be that is why the others died = they didn't use what they learned or didn't complete for one reason or another? I get you all are mostly control freaks that love to play on the fears of parents or relatives who wish they could have helped their kid at home.
How many lives have YOU destroyed by your words?
Anyone know how many parents didn't get help because of what they read on forums like this and their child ran away/died/is in jail/drug addicted - these are all forms of death -
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