Author Topic: Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx  (Read 25929 times)

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Offline Troll Control

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2005, 08:24:00 PM »
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On 2005-12-22 14:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
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hmmm... what is it again when one person kills another by gross negligence (like an illegal restraint hold - asphyxia)? oh yeah... negligent homicide.

Are you making this up as you go along? gross negligence, illegal restraint  You just writing words down from an old murder mystery novel?

 

Why not shot and thrown out of a 50 story window in Singapore after being kidnapped by the Iraqi mafia?



None of what you say has been mentioned by anyone associated with the event.



Check the first post on this thread, there is a link to the original article, I dont believe the investigation has been completed yet



"

Wow.  You are an ignorant individual.


" http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... 14ef5.html
Autopsy shows boy, 12, at Kerr center suffocated

Web Posted: 12/08/2005 12:00 AM CST

Zeke MacCormack
Express-News Staff Writer

Autopsy findings released Wednesday attribute the weekend death of a Kerrville boy to suffocation while being restrained at Star Ranch, a
residential treatment center in Ingram.

An unidentified ranch staffer reportedly placed Christening "Mikie" Garcia, 12, in "a basket hold" as the emotionally disturbed youngster tried to bang his own head on the pavement.

Arms across his chest and hands held from behind by the staffer, Garcia stopped breathing Sunday evening and couldn't be revived, officials said."



BASKET RESTRAINTS ARE ILLEGAL AND ARE KNOWN TO CAUSE SUFFOCATION.

How much clearer can it be?  They killed this child by improperly restraining him.  Did you not read the article you referenced?

You're a warped sicko to defend people who abuse and kill children.
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Offline Anonymous

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2005, 08:25:00 PM »
Mad Mom - I appreciate your passion and you've earned every bit of the anger you're feeling.  Please though, its much easier to read your posts if they're not in all caps.

Thanks and welcome.  :smile:
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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2005, 09:45:00 PM »
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BASKET RESTRAINTS ARE ILLEGAL AND ARE KNOWN TO CAUSE SUFFOCATION.

How much clearer can it be? They killed this child by improperly restraining him. Did you not read the article you referenced?

You're a warped sicko to defend people who abuse and kill children.


I can tell you are the same anon as before because you continue to make it up as you go.  Thank you for atleast reading the report and reposting the link, but saying Basket restraints are illegal....  I read the report again to give you the benefit of the doubt, sorry.

People in this country are innocent until proven guilty, there is already enough pain, a child dead, people feeling responsible, kids witnessing this horror.  Then we have to put up with people like you who take joy in sensationalizing it all, pointing fingers, screaming murder.
You should be seeking the truth instead of the spot light, shame on you and MADMOM for prejudging.  

Give the authorities some space and wait for the investigation to conclude
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Offline justamomintx

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2005, 10:11:00 PM »
People are so willing to jump to conclusions to promote their own personal points of view.  The Citizens Commission on Human Rights, a Scientology group, is not just anti-psychiatry.  Like MadMom, it is against the use of psychotropic drugs in children.
So in a case like this, where a child has died, eventually the blame can be at least placed on the drugs and the course of treatment. The actual cause of death was directly related, however, to the basket hold.  His behaviour, while possibly stemming in part from his drug regimen, was also due to his history: abuse and neglect.  Abused and neglected children often act out.  
I don't know, though, what else this faction would offer besides a treatment center like Star Ranch and besides the proven drug treatments.  CPS didn't want this kid anymore.  I'm not seeing much heat on that decision.
I do know that many children have received great benefit from some of these drugs, specifically related to depression.  I would expect that a professional would be more likely to be able to capably analyze Mike's drug profile and determine whether it was acceptable.  I know I don't have the training for that.
My point is the same as before: let's see the actual facts after the conclusion of the investigation before we blame the entire system.
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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2005, 10:12:00 PM »
Hey dont let them get to you, they try to rile people up with false info (hopeing you wont check on them), throw gas on the fire , makes them feel important.  Let em talk, when the report comes out they will be gone or try to convince you the cops were paid off... I've seen their types before...  Here is a quote I found in the local paper.......

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The staffer performed a state-approved "basket hold restraint," in which a child's arms are held across the chest, after all other options were exhausted......


They still havent read the article past the first paragraph.
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Offline MADMOM

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2005, 10:35:00 PM »
Anonymous... What association do you have with the Star Ranch?  I am wondering why you are so protective of the facility.  I am not as you say throwing gas onto a fire.  I am however, going to continue to expose the cruelty that i know the children go through in RTC's.  You are assuming that I am prejudging all of the staff at the Star Ranch.  I am not.  I am however judging the facts.  The child died from the results of a restraint.  If the basket hold was infact performed, as you and the "ranch" have reported, then why is he dead.  The truth of the matter is that there is no safe restraint for a child.  So what happen if the "investigation" is concluded and they rule his death and accident?  How many "accidents" will it take before somebody listens.  Anonymous...How would you suggest that this horrible situation be handled?  Should the grand jury not "true bill" this?  Should we all just move on?  You tell me...
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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2005, 11:06:00 PM »
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What association do you have with the Star Ranch?  I am wondering why you are so protective of the facility.

No affiliation, just a concerned parent with a teen.

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If the basket hold was infact performed, as you and the "ranch" have reported, then why is he dead
Not sure, could be medication the child was on, the counselor was improperly trained in the use of the basket hold, counselor did not follow proper procedure, the child had a lung condition etc.

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So what happen if the "investigation" is concluded and they rule his death and accident?
Depends on the root cause of the accident, if it was a training issue, maybe set up state controlled certification training for restraints and recertify periodically.  If the Basket Restraint is too high risk or has a high incidence of death maybe push to have it banned.  Counselors would then need to be trained on how to handle that situation in the future,  What hold would replace the Basket hold etc.

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Anonymous...How would you suggest that this horrible situation be handled?  Should the grand jury not "true bill" this?  Should we all just move on?  You tell me..."


The obvious answer to me would be to:
1. wait for the results of the investigation,
2. Determine root cause (i.e. poor training,lung condition, not following procedures etc.)
3. Push for a fix to correct the problem from reoccuring (i.e. training, better medical oversight, legal action against responsible parties etc.)
4. Monitor and follow-up to insure corrective action (the changes that were made)is/are effective.

I typically never suggest to just move on, especially if a life is at risk, but I do depend heavily on the authorities doing their job and giving them the space they need.
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Offline MADMOM

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2005, 11:16:00 PM »
Well, I would love to think that your theory would work with the facts leading to a true investigation, but I have tried to get the investigator to talk to my son about his experiences when he was at the Star Ranch and they are just not interested.  I contacted an officer Twiss by phone and she did not really want to talk to him. My son can show them how they restrain and he can tell them who did it to him.  Why not talk to him?  I do not have any faith that this is a true investigation, nor do i think that they will get a true bill.  Are you from the Hill Country?
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Offline Anonymous

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2005, 11:19:00 PM »
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On 2005-12-22 20:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

 but I do depend heavily on the authorities doing their job and giving them the space they need.

"


and therein lies one of the problems.
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Offline MADMOM

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2005, 11:26:00 PM »
sorry... you lost me there.  are you suggesting that my phone callis not giving them the space that they need?  I am only asking that they do a complete investigation.
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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2005, 11:30:00 PM »
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On 2005-12-22 20:16:00, MADMOM wrote:

"Well, I would love to think that your theory would work with the facts leading to a true investigation, but I have tried to get the investigator to talk to my son about his experiences when he was at the Star Ranch and they are just not interested.  I contacted an officer Twiss by phone and she did not really want to talk to him. My son can show them how they restrain and he can tell them who did it to him.  Why not talk to him?  I do not have any faith that this is a true investigation, nor do i think that they will get a true bill.  Are you from the Hill Country?"
Well I dont think they are out on a witch hunt.  They probably have reviewed the hold that was used and will speak to witnesses at the scene and if the same hold was used on them etc.
 They may not need your sons testimony because they have enough.  If no one was talking or there were no witnesses they would probably welcome your sons input, but I wouldnt dismiss the investigation because they didnt interview your son, there could be a number of reasons.
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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2005, 11:34:00 PM »
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On 2005-12-22 20:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
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On 2005-12-22 20:06:00, Anonymous wrote:


 but I do depend heavily on the authorities doing their job and giving them the space they need.


"




and therein lies one of the problems."
Not sure I understand,  there needs to be time to collect information,an hour, a day, a week.  What do you suggest, not talking to anyone, just make a decision on your personal feelings that day?
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Offline MADMOM

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2005, 11:39:00 PM »
I am very unclear about your need to protect this situation.  I obviously disagree with you.  the law has never protected these children.  In fact the laws that are in place right now disregard them.  I hope you are able to lay your head on your pillow at night and know that you are doing all that you can to help these helpless children....i know that I have not slept a night since I learned about Mikey.  sweet dreams
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Offline TheWho

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2005, 11:50:00 PM »
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On 2005-12-22 20:39:00, MADMOM wrote:

"I am very unclear about your need to protect this situation.  I obviously disagree with you.  the law has never protected these children.  In fact the laws that are in place right now disregard them.  I hope you are able to lay your head on your pillow at night and know that you are doing all that you can to help these helpless children....i know that I have not slept a night since I learned about Mikey.  sweet dreams"

Its good that you are able to keep an open mind.  Carrying torches and lynching people are not going to help our children.  We need to monitor the decisions of our elected officals and put them on the next bus out of town if they are not protecting us.
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Offline Anonymous

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Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC- Ingram, Tx
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2005, 12:04:00 AM »
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On 2005-12-22 20:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

 We need to monitor the decisions of our elected officals and put them on the next bus out of town if they are not protecting us."


In theory that sounds great but its rapidly becoming apparent to more and more of this country that money/dogma/politics speak long and loud in this country.
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