Early withdrawal

[69]

On 2005-12-09 17:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-09 17:19:00, Anonymous wrote:


"tortured, hmm thats funny i was in the program for 15 months and never saw anything that even slightly resembled torture"

I did. and many others. "

I did too. I saw them keeping kids like animals locked up in the hobbit for weeks, it's disguting. These places are a scam, the only ones who make out from this shitty deal are WWASP execs, everyone else gets screwed. These WWASP programs prepare you for nothing other than to take orders.. guess that's why so many join the military out of it. That's why the really freaky program people just end up working at the facility they were incarcerated at. Or maybe start their own.. ?  :roll:

[Anonymous]

fuck wwasp i was locked up for 19 months of hell. i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. if a parent thinks its a good idea to get family therapy from bill oreailly you might want to try wwasp.

[BuzzKill]

Oh Good grief - get off your high "education" horse.

How much education does Jay Kay have? How 'bout his pop - Ken Kay? How much education do any of the principal WWASP owners and operators have?

Wasn't it Kenny, who said a person didn't need an education to help kids? Or was that Jay?
Anybody got  that quote handy?

How about Ken's meteoric rise to power and authority at Brightway "hospital"? He shot right up the ladder, with no education to speak of.
Went from security guard, to President/Director of the "Hospital", in a matter of months. Might even have been weeks . . .
It would be quite impressive, if it didn't indicate such blatant fraud. If you want to read about it, Check out his testimony at the WWASP v PURE trial.

One things for sure, You Program people have got no business looking down your nose at anybody's education, or lack thereof.

[Anotherscaredmom]

You know what, I'm not going to offer another post explaining mine or my son's situation.  But I can tell you this, if your true motivation is to keep parents from sending their kids to any of these programs, that would be best served by less insulting and more helping.  That's kind of a no-brainer, but then....

 :wink:

[Anonymous]

You assume to know people's motivation for posting on this board...

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-09 21:41:00, famjaztique wrote:

"You know what, I'm not going to offer another post explaining mine or my son's situation. "

Say it ain't so!!  ::blushing::  ::blushing::  ::blushing::  ::hatter::  ::noway::  ::mecry::  ::mecry::  ::mecry::  ::mecry::  ::mecry::

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-12-09 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Nihilanthic,

         Surely I don't have a doctorate huh?  I'm sorry to inform you that while I have not yet completed my doctorate i have been accepted into an Ivy League University where I will do so.  Guess what the topic of my dissertation will be!  Yep, you've guessed it right, "Reducing Juvenile Recidivism: Evaluating the Effect of Long Term Residential Treatment Centers."  In case any of you are unaware recidivism is defined as: "A tendency to lapse into a previous pattern of behavior."  You're correct in that I cannot yet guarantee whatever the overall effects will be, at the conclusion of my research however I hypothesize that the recidivism rate of those who have graduated from residential treatment centers will be lower than those "troubled" teens who either never had the opportunity to attend a program or were pulled before completion.  

         I'm not quite sure why some of you seem to have an inability to express yourselves without the use of four letter words; I hope that you do understand that the use of such words as self expression is a outward sign of your inward ignorance!:D"

I can curse all I awnt, it doesnt mean its not true. 1+1=2, dammit. And, the fucking Riemann Zeta Hypothesis states that every fucking non-trivial zero's real part is 1/2. PS, its fucking complex, and still unproven, dammit, though its almost a forgone conclusion that its true, dammit.

Anywho, "You're correct in that I cannot yet guarantee whatever the overall effects will be, at the conclusion of my research however I hypothesize that the recidivism rate of those who have graduated from residential treatment centers will be lower than those "troubled" teens who either never had the opportunity to attend a program or were pulled before completion." congrats, you got a fucking hypothesis.

SHOW SOME DATA OR SHUT THE HELL UP. Ive got so many people here saying they did more drugs or fucked around MORE after the program because of the trauma of it Id love to see what you could possibly come up with, furthermore how would you find data on recidivism of those who werent put in the programs? Good luck, however MOST troubled kids dont go in programs and do fine.

Also, you still havent demonstarted HOW the programs do anything, or WHAT they do.

Why not start now? You keep saying you will do this and that and the other and speak of what will happen... yet you dont speak your name or what college you go to! Whereas Perrigaud told us her name and where she went.

Jesus christ, why am I talking to you? You cant even say what the programs do or how they do it.

I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.
--GW Büsh, CNN.com, December 18, 2000

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-12-09 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-09 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Nihilanthic,


         Surely I don't have a doctorate huh?  I'm sorry to inform you that while I have not yet completed my doctorate i have been accepted into an Ivy League University where I will do so.  Guess what the topic of my dissertation will be!  Yep, you've guessed it right, "Reducing Juvenile Recidivism: Evaluating the Effect of Long Term Residential Treatment Centers."  In case any of you are unaware recidivism is defined as: "A tendency to lapse into a previous pattern of behavior."  You're correct in that I cannot yet guarantee whatever the overall effects will be, at the conclusion of my research however I hypothesize that the recidivism rate of those who have graduated from residential treatment centers will be lower than those "troubled" teens who either never had the opportunity to attend a program or were pulled before completion.  


         I'm not quite sure why some of you seem to have an inability to express yourselves without the use of four letter words; I hope that you do understand that the use of such words as self expression is a outward sign of your inward ignorance!:D"

ProudGrad -- Dont take it personally this Nihilanthic guy is young, hasnt been fully educated himself and feels threatened by your success.  Once he moves into higher education himself (if he does) he will understand more and start to contribute more personal insight instead of just attacking and brow beating.

I use to be razed by some friends who stayed behind when I went away to college, but when they started taking courses themselves and matured that stuff goes away, Nihilanthic will grow out of it.

hang in there"

Im in my second year of college. Im also very openminded, but that doesnt mean I just BELIEVE what Im told. I dont really beleive much at all. Also, my IQ is 146, and Im a science major. Want to start an intellectual dick-wagging war? :lol:

I ask for proof, I ask for evidence - I ask them to enumerate what a program does, and how it does it, and I get no answers whatsoever.

When I push it, Im told it falls back upon seminars, and the evidence I've seen about the seminars is its little more than a LGAT. Coersive and traumatic mindgames are not therapy!

Also, no matter how much I curse, it doesnt change the fact. It just expresses my frustration and contempt of people such as yourself.

Come the millennium,

month 12,

in the home of greatest power,

the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-12-09 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-09 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-12-09 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Nihilanthic,



         Surely I don't have a doctorate huh?  I'm sorry to inform you that while I have not yet completed my doctorate i have been accepted into an Ivy League University where I will do so.  Guess what the topic of my dissertation will be!  Yep, you've guessed it right, "Reducing Juvenile Recidivism: Evaluating the Effect of Long Term Residential Treatment Centers."  In case any of you are unaware recidivism is defined as: "A tendency to lapse into a previous pattern of behavior."  You're correct in that I cannot yet guarantee whatever the overall effects will be, at the conclusion of my research however I hypothesize that the recidivism rate of those who have graduated from residential treatment centers will be lower than those "troubled" teens who either never had the opportunity to attend a program or were pulled before completion.  



         I'm not quite sure why some of you seem to have an inability to express yourselves without the use of four letter words; I hope that you do understand that the use of such words as self expression is a outward sign of your inward ignorance!:D"

ProudGrad -- Dont take it personally this Nihilanthic guy is young, hasnt been fully educated himself and feels threatened by your success.  Once he moves into higher education himself (if he does) he will understand more and start to contribute more personal insight instead of just attacking and brow beating.


I use to be razed by some friends who stayed behind when I went away to college, but when they started taking courses themselves and matured that stuff goes away, Nihilanthic will grow out of it.


hang in there"

I second this. The main difference between the ones on here who are open-minded about the issue and those who can't reach beyond the four-letter words as they trash programs and parents seems to be education. Whether they lack any authentic experience or a degree, the one defining characteristic seems to be ignorance. Thanks for the breath of fresh air. "

Ignorance? Its not my fault when I ask what a program does or how it does it nobody answers me!  :rofl:

Why not learn how to clearly state an answer to a simple query and learn to use details. Im VERY open minded but I dont accept something with no evidence and nothing to back it up. There is no detail in your statements, and no substance - its vague and full of double-binds and attempted attacks upon the person questioning you and your program.

Quit attacking my vocabulary and answer the question that Ive asked REPEATEDLY instead of talking about crap that nobody asked, or talking to yourself about the "Breath of fresh air". The only thing Im hearing from you and yourself, or the two of you is a lot of HOT air.

Tell me what a program does, and how it does it, and provide details and proof. People who say its abusive have managed to do both for YEARS! Guess why I believe them?

And now the liberals want to stop President Reagan from selling chemical warfare agents and military equipment to Saddam Hussein and why? Because Saddam 'allegedly' gassed a few Kurds in his own country. Mark my words. All of this talk of Saddam Hussein being a 'war criminal' or 'committing crimes against humanity' is the same old thing. LIBERAL HATE SPEECH! and speaking of poison gas... I SAY WE ROUND UP ALL THE DRUG ADDICTS AND GAS THEM TOO!
 
--Rush Limbaugh, November 3, 1988

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-12-10 03:41:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"146 IQ... put your dick away I put you to shame!



146.5!

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

"

Oh TSW, dont you know that the IQ scale goes with natural numbers? No fractions, no zeroes, no negatives. :wink:

I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life -- our desire to go on living -- our dread of coming to an end.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor

[CCM girl 1989]

Okay boys, play nice!!! Anyway, this proudgrad person is on my last nerve! I was trying to help Fanjazmituque or whatever her name is, these last couple days but I've grown tired of her whining. She's obviously not strong enough to handle a teenage boy herself, maybe her son can be the first to be enrolled at proudgrads school?!! I realized just this morning, in the year that I went to CCM I never once went to a doctor, nor did I go to the dentist. It's a good thing I never got sick. Strangly enough, I did have to have a root canal performed shortly after my release I was only 17!?!! Hmm........I never even thought twice that maybe if the folks at Cross Creek Manor actually got us to doctor/dentist appointments that I wouldn't have had to go through that! That place is a joke, and for all of you who think that place is so great, I think you are FREAKS (freaks that are employed by WWASP to speak on behalf of them). Seriously, what's wrong with you?? You offend people like myself who are emotionally scarred by that place. I'm 32, I just found this site 3 months ago, and I am PISSED OFF that these places are still around, and have multiplied in numbers. I did suffer abuse there, and since it was in the very begginning of these places being opened, NOBODY believed me. It makes me feel good to have others that have come out over the last 15 years and tell their personal stories of abuse, it makes me feel like I'm not the only one. To those of you parents getting ready to send their kids away, I feel sorry for your kids. It's obvious to me that YOU are the ones in need of therapy.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-09 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

""Reducing Juvenile Recidivism: Evaluating the Effect of Long Term Residential Treatment Centers.""

Well, you won't be the first to complete a study about these programs.  However, I'll venture a guess that you'll be the FIRST to announce that they're the only reasonable course of action to take and that without them your child will end up "Dead, insane, or in Jail."

Why don't you do some research on the studies already completed?  Each and every one done says that programs ar either harmful or do nothing.

Like I said, though, you've already got your verdict.  Now you just need to fit your story into your conclusion.

You're going to make a fine scientist, son, a fine scientist!   :lol:

[Anonymous]

***Like I said, though, you've already got your verdict. Now you just need to fit your story into your conclusion.

Precisely. Sounds very much like Ottawa.
It didn't take long, reading between the lines and observing her behavior, to uncover her real motive. She was here to gather evidence to support her thesis- that some kids are just too fucked up for the program to fix.
She did this by baiting volitile survivors to the point of anger to justify her musings. Totally unethical.

The methods and techniques need to be exposed. Do the ends justify the means?
And, as so many have witnessed here, they are not going to expose for scrutiny, the methods and techniques that aren't spell out in their parent manuals. Parents think their kids are living in a loving, structured environment with reasonable rules and consequences, cause what decent person would actually harm a child in the name of helping. Many also erroneously believe that any such institution has checks and balances to prevent abuse. That's where survivors can bust the illusion so light can shine on the scam.

These places do so well because the majority of the population has been brainwashed toward violence as a justifiable means to an end- not new. They believe as Shrub believes- the constitutions is just a 'goddamned piece of paper' and damnit, sometimes torture is necessary. It's a very sick paradigm that pervades the thinking of a large percentage of the population. Compounded by a society that is not child-friendly and parents who are scared shitless and programs that capitalize on their fear.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-09 17:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"tortured, hmm thats funny i was in the program for 15 months and never saw anything that even slightly resembled torture"

Wow, that is amazing. I remember when I first started posting on here and I was so damn brainwashed by the program I think I said that exact thing! I think there are different kinds of torture, some people are locked up in tiny white rooms with no ability to talk to anyone or have any freedom what so ever. Some people are taken down for the slightest things, not even for harming themselves or others, just for having a thought or feeling not in line with the programs philosophy. And then theres the torture I endured. I feel like having my identity and my thoughts taken away was torture. I think being lied to and forced into a horrible mindset was torture. I think having to endure TASK seminars and David Gilcreese was torture. And I would know torture, I suffered physical and mental abuse at home for 15 years before I was kidnapped by WWASP. I know it is really hard to belive that a place like the program is bad especially after youve been efficiently brainwashed by them and think that it "saved you life". But I think if you do alot of real soul searching you will see that you agree with us on some level. I know when I was defeding CCM with Perridaud, I would take out paticuler facts about my experience at CCM to make it look better. But relaly I knew, I was terrified at CCM. I developed OCD, I started to pull out my eyebrows and hair and bite the hell out of my fingernails, simply from being so damn afraid all the time. I was constantly in fear of dropping levels, even if I had done nothing wrong. It was horrible.


"I will warn you that i've have seen over and over again that kids pulled from the programs often are worse then they were before the program, for the simple reason that they feel that they have won, they have beat their parents."

oh and as for this guy, that is comlete bullshit.

And as for the original poster, my mom was really onto what was going on at CCM and she demanded my therapist let me talk to her for a week or so. They argued with her, said she was overreacting, she was going to ruin the progress they had already made with me, and that she was a maniulator, she was setting a bad example, if she took me home I would die, etc etc. She demanded to see me anyway and they made her come at a sceduled time and didnt let me talk to her, just let her see me through one way mesh. She said the only reason she didnt pull me that day was becuase she said I looked healthier and happy. Well the reason I looked that way was becasue I had my therapist and family rep gaurding me and telling me to "smile, your mom is watching you!" I never got a chance to tell her how I really felt and I think it would be unwise for you to let them set the rules for you. Remember, they are master manipulators and they do this all the time. They will try their damndest to keep her in and change your mind so they can make profit. Dont let them take your kids personality and free will over. It will only make things worse in the end.

Amanda Foster

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-09 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Does anybody know if there is a way to get out of the 12 month contract to these schools? I'm having bad feelings about my daughter at MWA and considering early withdrawal. Am I stuck paying for 90 - 120 days tuition if I pull her early??? Are there any loopholes??

"

If you've gotten caught up on forum like this, of course you are having bad feelings!  Who wouldn't!  It's getting to your fear of the unknown!  

If you can't go there and see for yourself that she is okay, have another parent that is going to visit take some pictures of her for you  - Why are you posting on here and not on the MWA board if you want the real thing?  

I know parents that will post on this board because they are looking for an excuse to bring their child home, especially at Christmas time.  You will find an excuse here...

Don't you remember why you took a stand for her life and enrolled her at MWA?  If that's not enough to keep her there, I don't know what is.  

So many kids that get pulled early wonder what life would be like if their parents had believed in them enough to allow them to graduate.  If you bring her home without even checking the plae out it out for yourself, it will be for you, not for her.  

This board is full of hate and terror.  If that's what you want, enjoy and happy holidays.