life program 1990-1991

[Anonymous]

get ready Mike.  if you stick around here, you will be hen-pecked until you believe as the others.  that you were tortured, abused and raped at life.

 they are out to turn you against ANYTHING positive you may have recieved from your experience there.  seems to be their priority in life (no pun intended).

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-12-09 21:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

 get ready Mike.  if you stick around here, you will be hen-pecked until you believe as the others.  that you were tortured, abused and raped at life.



 they are out to turn you against ANYTHING positive you may have recieved from your experience there.  seems to be their priority in life (no pun intended).  "

You should read this out loud to see how dumb it really sounds.  

No one here is trying to "convert" anyone.  Contrary to your delusion, most around here despise groupthink.  I, and several other posters witnessed and were personally targets of abuse.

It's curious how your alarm goes off when people start wanting to discuss the truth.

Mike said himself that the methods were not the best, and the holes in his life were filled in with dogma.  No one here doubts Mike's success in life, or even yours.

I find it interesting that I never heard a Pro-Program graduate say "Yep, I worked my butt off, and I made it happen".  Why is that?[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2005-12-10 05:16 ]

[xvipah]

I would venture to say the reason you've never heard that, is that it isn't(almost can't be) true.  When I was in there the program controlled everything about your life.  Sure I had to do the talking and alla that in rap, but everything I did(was allowed to do) were controlled for me.  I'm not sure there was an opportunity for me to work MY butt off and succeed.  I had to work as hard as they told me to so that I could move on.

That's not to say that nothing came from me, but you also have to remember, most of us were 12-17 year old kids, I personally was 15-17 when I was in, individuality wasn't something we thought of or concerned ourselves with.  We did what we were told so that we could go home.

Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-12-10 07:14:00, xvipah wrote:

"I would venture to say the reason you've never heard that, is that it isn't(almost can't be) true.  When I was in there the program controlled everything about your life.  Sure I had to do the talking and alla that in rap, but everything I did(was allowed to do) were controlled for me.  I'm not sure there was an opportunity for me to work MY butt off and succeed.  I had to work as hard as they told me to so that I could move on.



That's not to say that nothing came from me, but you also have to remember, most of us were 12-17 year old kids, I personally was 15-17 when I was in, individuality wasn't something we thought of or concerned ourselves with.  We did what we were told so that we could go home.

Mike, I was talking about present day.  I've conversed with many a supporter that is convinced they'd be dead-insane-in-jail (a program catch phrase standard across most all of them), and owe their college graduation, their marriage and family and job success to the program.

How do you account for the people who did all those things without the program?  How do you account for the truly screwed up people who one day turned it all around on their own?

How about the kids who were admitted to the program, that didn't have problems - but their parents were convinced by other parents and the propoganda at the time,  that "druggie behavior" exists in every teen?  Yes, this did happen.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-10 09:45:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:

"

On 2005-12-10 07:14:00, xvipah wrote:


"I would venture to say the reason you've never heard that, is that it isn't(almost can't be) true.  When I was in there the program controlled everything about your life.  Sure I had to do the talking and alla that in rap, but everything I did(was allowed to do) were controlled for me.  I'm not sure there was an opportunity for me to work MY butt off and succeed.  I had to work as hard as they told me to so that I could move on.





That's not to say that nothing came from me, but you also have to remember, most of us were 12-17 year old kids, I personally was 15-17 when I was in, individuality wasn't something we thought of or concerned ourselves with.  We did what we were told so that we could go home.

Mike, I was talking about present day.  I've conversed with many a supporter that is convinced they'd be dead-insane-in-jail (a program catch phrase standard across most all of them), and owe their college graduation, their marriage and family and job success to the program.



How do you account for the people who did all those things without the program?  How do you account for the truly screwed up people who one day turned it all around on their own?



How about the kids who were admitted to the program, that didn't have problems - but their parents were convinced by other parents and the propoganda at the time,  that "druggie behavior" exists in every teen?  Yes, this did happen.  




"

I think alot of kids that ended up there, didn't have the problem that they were told that they had but the reality is that you swallowed your pride, motivated your ass off and shed some tears to get the hell out of the building.  Whether the druggie problem was real or not didn't matter to me, I did what I had to do to get out of there.  Eventually I think I caved to the pressure and lived the good phaser life but I know that I felt the entire time I never belonged there.  Sure somethings I learned were good for me but most of those are common senses. I think had I been given the time and a chance, I would have grown up a little and made better decisions.  But the fear of God and Susan Crandall made me do it sooner.  I know that the "tools" I learned while there weren't used again once I knew no one was going to snoop behind me.

[xvipah]

Oh my God...

Susan Crandall, there's a blast from the past  :smile:

In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. Only one who knows the disastrous effects of a long war can realize the supreme importance of rapidity in bringing it to a close. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war who can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
--Sun Tzu (author of The Art of War

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-10 17:50:00, xvipah wrote:

"Oh my God...



Susan Crandall, there's a blast from the past  

I hated her.  She made short Sundays suck.  Jeff was OK but Susan was horrible.  I think she enjoyed terrorizing people.

[xvipah]

Oh man, Jeff, I'd forgotten about him too.  I swore up and down he was gay.

I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet