Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Good Friends/Reunions Only
Antigen:
Well, again, good intentions? Of course the original intent was good. Believe it or not, I still believe that the staff who run the current incarnation of the Seed have only the best of intentions. They belive, as we once did, that these kids are too crazy and mixed up to speak for themselves--that they must be forced to come around from their insane notions and see that they're living in paradise. And so the beatings will continue until the crying stops.
I know people have fond memories from the Seed. People also have fond memories of Straight. There's at least one former staffer who I knew from Sarasota who can't seem to comprehend how we all saw things so differently from what he remembers. He never wittnessed any abuse, only consequences.
Do you see how and why it's dangerous to leave that kind of pleasant delusion alone? Landy, I saw the Seed change over a very short time even from my low to the ground and at arm's length perspective. And I saw more changes when I got to St. Pete and Sarasota and more still over the two years I was in Sarasota. How did that happen, man? How did such an altruistic ideal become so horrid? Well, for one thing we were never allowed dissent. If someone asked you how you were doing, there was only one acceptable answer; a convincing and entheusiastic "GREAT!"
If you bought that fiction and actually believed that everybody felt GREAT all the time, I'm sorry to tell you that you got punked. But don't feel too badly, you didn't suffer half so much as those of us who practically shit ourselves for years afterward every time some kind soul made that query of us not knowing our history.
If we only allow complaints and no positive stories, who will ever understand how good people could take part in these horrid act? That's actually one of my big beefs w/ the media and other outlanders' attempts to cover this story. The way they paint it, their audience is looking for some lurching monsters who don't exist. But if we only allow the positive and leave out the unpleasant details, well that's just as distorted.
In my opinion, if anyone wants to have a one sided conversation about this topic they'll have to carefully screen participants and spend a good deal of time and effort monitoring and moderating the convo. That's not gonna happen here.
Mean time, anybody asking the rest of us to please quit spoiling their fond fantasies w/ inconvenient truths is going to get a loud, entheusiastic and well deserved raspberry from me.
The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.
--Thomas Sowell
--- End quote ---
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-08 16:33:00, landyh wrote:
For all intense and purpose
--- End quote ---
:rofl:
I just caught this. Yes, things changed gradually, imperceptibly. I would imagine that, one day, someone used the phrase "for all intents and purposes". Then someone picked it up, probably a staffer who no one dared correct, and they said "for all intense and purpose" and it went unchallenged. Somewhere down the line, it morphed into "for all intensive purposes". As far as I know, that has remained unaltered in the cannon of Program lingo lo these many years.
But do you see my whimsical point here? Where dissent and dissagreement are not welcome and encouraged, we're bound to magnify errors.
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.
---Richard Nixon
--- End quote ---
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Ft. Lauderdale:
I'm so sorry to hear of the bad experiences that happened to you. That really must have been a terrible thing to live through & I do feel sorry for you. It also did not happen at the Seed and you seem to have a hard time explaining certain things. You never went through the seed program and blame the seed for everything that happened to you in your life. That is my opinion.
But that gives you no excuse to say that anyone that had a good experience with the seed was in your words "mind fucked". I never "mind fucked" with anyone and I resent that whole tone and personally find it quite offensive.
Actually if anyone is stuck in the past. It appears to be you. This whole thing is getting old fast. I think you love to hate and you want to hate. I guess you kinda get off on it. Why else would you rip to shreads anyone that has anything good to say about their experience. I quite frankly have had enough of your crap. It just repeats itself over and over and over. I really hope you some day come to terms with your issues. You definatly have them weather you want to see it or not. I wish you well. I think you really need help. I hope you get the help you need.
[ This Message was edited by: Ft. Lauderdale on 2005-12-09 09:26 ]
marshall:
--quote----
"Where dissent and dissagreement are not welcome and encouraged, we're bound to magnify errors."
-----------
And that's exactly why I think the organization(s) are at fault more than the individuals who may have been a part of it. From sociology we know that people tend to behave in crowds in a different way than as individuals. I think the same is true of people in organizations of various sorts. Any group, culture or organization that discourages dissent or disagreement tends to go bad at some point, however good the original intent was.
Many political pundits have made this point in regards to the current administration. The president has surrounded himself with people who are reluctant to disagree with him, so any tiny error becomes magnified instead of corrected. I see the same phenomena over and over in studying different religous organizations. It's the whole problem with authoritarian structures.
Until the final confrontation, it seems no-one was willing to criticize or question Art's judgement on anything of significance. The same applied to staff to a lesser extent. No-one who was a mere group-member could challenge or question any rap leader or staff. The whole thing was founded on that top-down authority. Any mistake at the top was conducted and magnified downward.
Once upon a time, a man and the devil were walking down the street. They watched as someone walking ahead of them reached down and picked something up. The devil began to laugh with delight whereupon the man with him asked what the person had picked up;
Devil: "Ah, that person just found Truth."
Man: "Truth?, I would have thought that would be very bad for you. Why are you so happy?"
Devil: "Because I'm going to help him organize it!" :smokin:
It's how we got from 'love thy neighbor as thyself' & 'judge not lest ye be judged' to the inquisition and bashing infants heads upon rocks to save their souls.
Anonymous:
Hey Maggie, Greg, Ginger, KJ, Thom, CLevland & the rest of all you crazy wonderful people!
You gotta admit it's all in the way you look at it!
My house is still a pile of rubble, but me & my family were & are OK!
I am still commuting 2 hours each way to work, but I am glad to have a job, HEY a New Job too!!!
I am all alone (& lonely) in a place that now seems unfamiliar, but I am thankful to have the love & support of family & friends & the people I have been able to re-connect with thru this site
You get the idea, I would be most happy to take a boat ride with all of you, because you know what?
Every day above ground is a good day...
Happy Holidays & Love you guys!!!!
Chris
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version