Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
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cleveland:
Ginger, I can only say that your story is painful, shocking and sad, and that this is a pain that so many women I have known share in some way or another.
Abuse has many, many forms and faces, and we are all of us guilty at some point of hurting one another. And even our best efforts to be good can turn out poorly.
No wonder you are mad. I think you have used some of your anger to fuel the work it takes to maintain and run this site, and I am grateful that you have chosen to do so.
I agree with you that the current treatment of adolescents is all wrong, and unfortunately, a lot of it was based on the Seed.
But I also see that there are posters here who have a largely positive memory of the Seed, and I find it hard to think that the original intent of the seed was evil. I think that anything as powerful and coercive as the seed was can lead, and maybe will always lead, to abuses. But I can't argue with someone's positive feelings - you can't argue feelings. I hope that we will have respect for feelings as well as for facts - in the end, truth will be revealed and that's what healing is all about as far as I am concerned.
I heard someone say that there is no such thing as 'closure' when it comes to human feelings, that our experiences enclose one another like the rings of an onion. That makes sense to me. We can only assimilate, but the pain and joy of our experiences will be with us forever.
Anyway, I guess it seems weird to add it to this post, but happy holidays - again - to everyone!
Walter[ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2005-12-08 15:54 ]
landyh:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-08 15:51:00, cleveland wrote:
"
But I also see that there are posters here who have a largely positive memory of the Seed, and I find it hard to think that the original intent of the seed was evil. I think that anything as powerful and coercive as the seed was can lead, and maybe will always lead, to abuses. But I can't argue with someone's positive feelings - you can't argue feelings. I hope that we will have respect for feelings as well as for facts - in the end, truth will be revealed and that's what healing is all about as far as I am concerned.
Walter[ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2005-12-08 15:54 ]"
--- End quote ---
I was there in the beginning and have stated numerous times that it didn't start out as coercive or abusive in any way. Ginger has even been willing to acknowledge the possibility. It just wasn't the way so many of you who came later remember it in the beginning. I got to go back and see for myself how it had changed. The problem Ginger when you want to talk about the facts is you have to realize that in regard to The Seed there was a fluidity within the facts that was inexorably affected by time and space. For all intense and purpose we are not even talking about the same place even if it still had the same name.
There really shouldn't be any disagreement. I saw what it was and what it had started to become. Sorry guy's but both sides are right if taken in the correct context of time. Those are the defensible facts.
GregFL:
Landy, it is because of this forum that we understand that the seed was an idea that developed and dramatically changed in short periods of time. We all know that.
What still surprises me tho is the dogmatic way some seed supporters get riled at any criticism of the beloved cult, even in the face of the harm it caused so many people, and even when those people acknowledge that the others had a positive experience.
Can't we discuss the seed as an event in our lives without taking it personally? Is that possible?
landyh:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-08 17:15:00, GregFL wrote:
"Landy, it is because of this forum that we understand that the seed was an idea that developed and dramatically changed in short periods of time. We all know that.
What still surprises me tho is the dogmatic way some seed supporters get riled at any criticism of the beloved cult, even in the face of the harm it caused so many people, and even when those people acknowledge that the others had a positive experience.
Can't we discuss the seed as an event in our lives without taking it personally? Is that possible?
"
--- End quote ---
I agree Greg and i was trying to say that in my own roundabout way.:wink: I was fortunate in one way to have actually personally experienced at least some of the changes from what was a positive force to something darker and definitively different. I can see the facts of my experience as being non-exclusive of the experience of others but when we exclude the possibiity that the sum of our own experiences at the Seed may not equal the whole of its parts we seem to slip into a form of discord that argues to no purpose. If any of us fail to balance the truth in a way that requires us to stand back from the limit or our own contact with the program then we gain nothing of value. Doggedly clinging to a narrow percection on either side is equally pointless. I have never found stretching my own viewpoint to be of damage to its origins.
Anonymous:
greg, this happens on both sides of the issue. both sides get riled up and both sides take it personally at various times. also everynow and then both sides admit that maybe something on the other side is just a bit true.
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