Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Good Friends/Reunions Only
GregFL:
Not really Ft. Lauderdale. I see no problem with you thinking your experience was generally positive. I also would like you to consider exactly what it was your were involved in.
That is all.
Magpie:
If i say "okay I admit it, we were in a cult" would you leave it alone then? What the hell are you going to do about it anyway. I don't plan on starting another program nor does Ft. Laud. or anyone else I know. Plus, I respect the fact that you think it was a cult, so why can't you respect the fact that I don't. This is what "agreeing to disagree" means. I know you think it is and I don't think it was or that it makes any difference. Sorry! See you guys can't leave it alone--I thought perhaps I would give this a try but it didn't work. BYE!
Antigen:
Magpie, whether you like to think of it or not, this wonderful, glorious thing you were involved in hurt a LOT of people. NIDA refuses just as obtusely as you do to acknowledge it. So do the people currently running, funding and protecting the dirty little secrets at places like KHK in Cincinatti and Pathway Family Center in Detroit and Salt Lake and Growing Together in Lake Worth.
Let me make a comparrison. Say, just for example, I happen to run into one of those jokers who dropped something in my drink some decades ago and then proceeded to pass me around among their friends like a party favor. At the time, not a damned thing I could do about it. What, call the cops? I'd rather do that whole sick scene again for just one night than get the continual ass kicking and harrassment I'd get for the crime of trying to escape my ever loving Group.
So let's say this guy recognizes me and says "Hey, I remember you! You remember that great party on St. Paddy's Day back in `82 in Ft. Lauderdale? What blast that was! God, I miss those guys. Let's hook up with them and do it again."
Now, what should be my response to that? Beat him severely with a baseball bat right then? Set him up on false charges so that he might relive those fond memories w/ the shoe on the other foot at Raifford? Or smile, respectfully and tell him he's entitled to his own opinions on the matter?
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. The reason why the distinction is important to me is pretty simple and obvious and (now that I think of it) I've stated it pretty often around here. I don't really care so much what you think as you're not (to my knowledge) starting your own cult.
But I won't let this matter rest or the fiction stand unchallenged till NIDA, law enforcement, schoolpeople and others in authority quit pretending that this sort of mindfuck is therapeutic.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
--- End quote ---
cleveland:
Folks, if we can remove the anger and judgement from this discussion, and let go of being 'right,' then perhaps we can see things from both sides. I don't like to use the word 'cult,' because it is such a loaded word, like racism. On the other hand, the characteristics of cults are certainly something to be aware of with any group that I associate myself with.
But - but! Why did the Seed exist? And why so many programs today? Because there is a need, real or perceived. There is something wrong with growing up in America today, and parents are scared while kids are unhappy.
So let's figure out what it is that is missing, and try to supply in our own families and society. And if you tell me it's just a lack of love or attention, well maybe, but even kids from happy families get screwed up.
Sometimes I think Ginger and Greg too will rub people's faces in the 'c' word, hoping that they will say, 'alright, alright - the Seed was a cult!' Not going to happen - certainly not for Maggie and Ft. Lauderdale, who had positive experiences (and I have no reason to doubt - I know Ft. Lauderdale and he is a kind, intelligent person). Look, my brother and sister swear by AA, and I have read all of the anti-AA literature, and I agree with it, but I have no arguments for the fact that it did work for them, and that they feel that it was needed and successful. So I have to respect their experience. Although I do disagree, why should I try to make them agree with me? We can share our own experiences and let the chips fall where they may. Merry Christmas!
Antigen:
Yeah, well, the kids. Think of that for a moment. What in the world do we tell the kids? What do we tell them when they come home as excited and energetic as any newly inducted member of the Hitler Jugund in the `30's ever was, telling us all about what fun they had w/ the DARE cop and how nice he really is? What do we tell them when they ask about drugs, drug culture, drug policy, etc; or when the circumstances of their lives demand an answer?
Now, this is not just theoretical from my standpoint. I'm speaking from experience. If we tell them the truth, what we really think and what they need to know, some of us risk getting another round of good old fashioned Group lovin' for it. I have a very good friend who lost custody of her children to her Straight, Inc. believing parents for a time for the "crime" of letting her kid try pot at home under gentle supervision rather than go out driving somewhere unknown w/ her young, inexperienced friends in the night and try, maybe, LSD or Exctacy.
This was years ago, but the fear and anger burn on. And do you blame her?
I'm reading a very good book right now about Nazi Germany just before WWII. I'm only mildly surprised to find that on the night that the good, right thinking, party faithful burned the synagogs all over Germany, not every goyem celebrated. Some said things like "What next, the Katherine Church?" and "Burning God's house! Can you imagine?" But they didn't say it very loud, the kids might hear. And that could be dangerous.
Why in the world should it be important to anybody to set the record straight about this ongoing crime wave? Why in the world? I just can't imagine. :roll:
Sorry, no.
Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
--- End quote ---
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version