Good Friends/Reunions Only

[Anonymous]

I really need to be directed by sombody. I need to work on my bad thoughts, or badly formed thoughts. Can I find out from you directions to a meeting? I need a group on writing in the passive voice.

Oh, one other thing, please. I can't remember the difference between want and need. Can I be told by someone, please?

[GregFL]

On 2005-12-07 16:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I really need to be directed by sombody. I need to work on my bad thoughts, or badly formed thoughts. Can I find out from you directions to a meeting? I need a group on writing in the passive voice.



Oh, one other thing, please. I can't remember the difference between want and need. Can I be told by someone, please?

"

No.



 :grin:

[GregFL]

 I guess if learning to do what I did was because I was in a cult (your opinion Greg), then I would do it all again!  

And thats okay Maggie (and it was fun when we went bowling, wasn't it?)
Everyone doesn't take their experience in a cult as negative. Hit that link I posted above and read it.  

As for the seed being a cult, it is listed by all the major cult experts as one. It is not merely my opinion but the opinion of all respected cult experts who have looked at it, was the opinion of the congress of the united states who did a study that came out while you and I were there.  That the Seed was a cult is not new information, it is just now confirmed outside the secrecy that the seed tried unsuccessfully to maintain.

So, coming to terms with the fact you were in a cult does not mean you have to reject the positives you took from it.  It does hopefully however, help one understand that others may have been devastated by the same experience.

Capice?

[cleveland]

My early days at the seed were quite painful...it was quite a shock to be subject to so much discipline, rigid rules, heirarchy, etc. In the middle period for me, as an oldcomer, I agree with Maggie - I had a lot of fun, did things that I couldn't have done before because they were 'uncool,' and I made some really good friends.

But in the end, I was stifled. No relationships with girls (Maggie, you hung out with boys? Any unsuperivised time with the opposite sex was prohibited for me). I was stuck in unsatisfying careers. Anytime I formed a real bond with anyone, staff would move me to a new apartment. I outgrew the seed, and I was in a role of permanent oldcomer, which was really so limiting. As I have noted before, staff was not open to my pursuing my career interests, school or relationship. They might have been more open if I had been more assertive, like Ft. Lauderdale was, but I had been told so often how bad I was at making choices and how incompetent I was that I believed it. It's no different from a disfunctional family system, and that's what I was stuck with. I would have loved to go bowling! Made friends with a girl! Ft. Lauderdale, you had more freedom than most - don't forget that. I guess it's all relative to our personal experiences. But happy holidays anyway!

Walter

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Walter,
I agree with you also.  I did have some freedom.  
I think it was wrong that you were told some of the things you were told.  I wish you would have blown up a couple of times instead of being so damn nice.  I even think if I would have heard the Artist thing, I might have said something for you.  I guess I kinda bonded with people by sortof fighting with them sometimes.

[Anonymous]

1.
         1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
         2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
   2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
   3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
   4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
   5.
         1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
         2. The object of such devotion.
   6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

ETYMOLOGY:
Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate; see kwel- 1 in Indo-European roots

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-08 06:56:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

I think it was wrong that you were told some of the things you were told.

Would it be accurate to state it like "We were wrong to tell you those things." ?

[GregFL]

On 2005-12-08 08:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"   1.

         1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

         2. The followers of such a religion or sect.

   2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

   3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.

   4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

   5.

         1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.

         2. The object of such devotion.

   6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.



ETYMOLOGY:

Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate; see kwel- 1 in Indo-European roots

"

While the dictionary definition of the term "cult" varies and can be applied to various types of groups, the term "cult" is generally used in society to describe a destructive group that has certain characteristics. Here, try this it may help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Defin ... .22cult.22


"Secular cult opponents define a "cult" as a religious or non-religious group which tends to manipulate, exploit and control its members. Here two definitions by Michael Langone and Louis Jolyon West, scholars who are widely recognized among the secular cult opposition:

"Cults are groups that often exploit members psychologically and/or financially, typically by making members comply with leadership's demands through certain types of psychological manipulation, popularly called mind control, and through the inculcation of deep-seated anxious dependency on the group and its leaders.1 "

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." 8

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Actually, I can't think of something off the top of my head that I regret saying.  I may have, but no regrets.  I loved alot of people and looked after them the best I could and I feel damn good about it as a matter of fact. :grin:

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Oh God he we go on the "Cult" rampage again...

[GregFL]

Not really Ft. Lauderdale.  I see no problem with you thinking your experience was generally positive.  I also would like you to consider exactly what it was your were involved in.

That is all.

[Magpie]

If i say "okay I admit it, we were in a cult" would you leave it alone then?  What the hell are you going to do about it anyway.  I don't plan on starting another program nor does Ft. Laud. or anyone else I know.  Plus, I respect the fact that you think it was a cult, so why can't you respect the fact that I don't.  This is what "agreeing to disagree" means.  I know you think it is and I don't think it was or that it makes any difference.  Sorry!  See you guys can't leave it alone--I thought perhaps I would give this a try but it didn't work.  BYE!

[Antigen]

Magpie, whether you like to think of it or not, this wonderful, glorious thing you were involved in hurt a LOT of people. NIDA refuses just as obtusely as you do to acknowledge it. So do the people currently running, funding and protecting the dirty little secrets at places like KHK in Cincinatti and Pathway Family Center in Detroit and Salt Lake and Growing Together in Lake Worth.

Let me make a comparrison. Say, just for example, I happen to run into one of those jokers who dropped something in my drink some decades ago and then proceeded to pass me around among their friends like a party favor. At the time, not a damned thing I could do about it. What, call the cops? I'd rather do that whole sick scene again for just one night than get the continual ass kicking and harrassment I'd get for the crime of trying to escape my ever loving Group.

So let's say this guy recognizes me and says "Hey, I remember you! You remember that great party on St. Paddy's Day back in `82 in Ft. Lauderdale? What  blast that was! God, I miss those guys. Let's hook up with them and do it again."

Now, what should be my response to that? Beat him severely with a baseball bat right then? Set him up on false charges so that he might relive those fond memories w/ the shoe on the other foot at Raifford? Or smile, respectfully and tell him he's entitled to his own opinions on the matter?

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. The reason why the distinction is important to me is pretty simple and obvious and (now that I think of it) I've stated it pretty often around here. I don't really care so much what you think as you're not (to my knowledge) starting your own cult.

But I won't let this matter rest or the fiction stand unchallenged till NIDA, law enforcement, schoolpeople and others in authority quit pretending that this sort of mindfuck is therapeutic.

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
-- Ashleigh Brilliant

[cleveland]

Folks, if we can remove the anger and judgement from this discussion, and let go of being 'right,' then perhaps we can see things from both sides. I don't like to use the word 'cult,' because it is such a loaded word, like racism. On the other hand, the characteristics of cults are certainly something to be aware of with any group that I associate myself with.

But - but! Why did the Seed exist? And why so many programs today? Because there is a need, real or perceived. There is something wrong with growing up in America today, and parents are scared while kids are unhappy.

So let's figure out what it is that is missing, and try to supply in our own families and society. And if you tell me it's just a lack of love or attention, well maybe, but even kids from happy families get screwed up.

Sometimes I think Ginger and Greg too will rub people's faces in the 'c' word, hoping that they will say, 'alright, alright - the Seed was a cult!' Not going to happen - certainly not for Maggie and Ft. Lauderdale, who had positive experiences (and I have no reason to doubt - I know Ft. Lauderdale and he is a kind, intelligent person). Look, my brother and sister swear by AA, and I have read all of the anti-AA literature, and I agree with it, but I have no arguments for the fact that it did work for them, and that they feel that it was needed and successful. So I have to respect their experience. Although I do disagree, why should I try to make them agree with me? We can share our own experiences and let the chips fall where they may. Merry Christmas!

[Antigen]

Yeah, well, the kids. Think of that for a moment. What in the world do we tell the kids? What do we tell them when they come home as excited and energetic as any newly inducted member of the Hitler Jugund in the `30's ever was, telling us all about what fun they had w/ the DARE cop and how nice he really is? What do we tell them when they ask about drugs, drug culture, drug policy, etc; or when the circumstances of their lives demand an answer?

Now, this is not just theoretical from my standpoint. I'm speaking from experience. If we tell them the truth, what we really think and what they need to know, some of us risk getting another round of good old fashioned Group lovin' for it. I have a very good friend who lost custody of her children to her Straight, Inc. believing parents for a time for the "crime" of letting her kid try pot at home under gentle supervision rather than go out driving somewhere unknown w/ her young, inexperienced friends in the night and try, maybe, LSD or Exctacy.

This was years ago, but the fear and anger burn on. And do you blame her?

I'm reading a very good book right now about Nazi Germany just before WWII. I'm only mildly surprised to find that on the night that the good, right thinking, party faithful burned the synagogs all over Germany, not every goyem celebrated. Some said things like "What next, the Katherine Church?" and "Burning God's house! Can you imagine?" But they didn't say it very loud, the kids might hear. And that could be dangerous.

Why in the world should it be important to anybody to set the record straight about this ongoing crime wave? Why in the world? I just can't imagine.  :roll:

Sorry, no.

Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer