RMA 85-87

[Anonymous]

Anyone out there go to RMA in 1985- 1987? Curious when those that post ften were  students there.

I don't deny that some things that were said were wrong andcould even be considered  abusive. I guess I just don't feel "scarred" from those days. There were some  gresat things about those years at RMA, but, there were also some "not so great" things.

There were staff there that said things that do haunt me... Caroline  Wolfe being one of those staff that I can't even thins abut without kringing. But there were others who spoke to me with such kindness whose words hold a place in my heart... Mare Dubavich being one og those people.

I agree with most of you that those years at RMA were  not PERFECT or blissful. But neither were the years prior to me going there. I am not sure what would have been worse.... not going to RMA when I did, or living through 34 months of RMA. I don't know. It was what it was. I am not angry about it. I try to remember what was good and forget about what was bad.

What I do like to look back fondly on is the friendships that I had when I was there. I have never had  friends like I did when I was there.

[try another castle]

I was there towards the tail end of your stay. We probably never met. I don't feel scarred either, but I did go through a lot of adjustment difficulties after I graduated. I used to have a lot of stress dreams, and I basically went through deprogramming myself. It messed with my identity for a while, to be sure. But I eventually moved on and grew up.

In the grand scheme of behavior mod schools, CEDU/RMA were among the cushier, no doubt, but there certainly were some unqualified staff. Caroline being one of them. I heard it got crazier in the 90s, but that the program was more coercive when you and I were there. Kids from the 90s and beyond state that it was much easier to resist the programming. Probably because a lot of the structure and strict regime that you and I experienced had lapsed, according to testimony from alumni.

I liked Mare, too. She and I weren't close, but she seemed nice. I don't even remember being in a lot of her raps, except for my very first one. I was shocked when I found out she had passed away. Dan was pretty decent, too, simply for the fact that I associate him with being away from the school, since he ran the wilderness program.

As far as friendships, well, my friendships today are more substantial than anything I had then. Mainly because I was so immature and inexperienced with developing close connections, and the school really didn't help facilitate that understanding. (Although I did have some close friends before I went to RMA.) At RMA, I essentially felt like a freak. Although I certainly bought into the program and tried hard enough. (Maybe too hard. Which was part of my problem.)

I have some good memories, too. Mainly the wilderness expeditions, and Christmas. (As well as the weeks leading up to Christmas, since we didn't have to work, and did Santa's Workshop instead.)

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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:45 ]

[Anonymous]

I was at RMA from 85-87.   I suspect that we know each other.

Mare was terrific, and I miss her.

I do not feel 'scarred' from those days, either.   But I do wish that I was not sent to RMA.  I feel that the placement, for me, was not the best fit.   I did not fit in socially, and my 'story' just did not match the consequence of RMA. I do agree with -- It was what it was.

In terms of just remembering the good times from RMA, I find that I remember very little about RMA --  good or bad.

But here's a one-liner for you -- Master Bates.    I do not remember his first name ... maybe Brian.   I used to really enjoy calling him Master Bates -- guess I was a tad immature.

The person who posted about trying too hard at RMA -- I think I did the same thing.  I was really looking for place to fit in.   I did my best to fit in at RMA, but I failed.   It took me a long time to realize that not being a part of a group or invited to join a group may not be a reflection on me.

Well, enough yammering, I should get some work done.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm...now I am curious.

Of course we knew each other. Everyone "knew" everyone there.

I, too, tried to fit in to a certain point. Even though RMA fought the premise of high school cliques, they were still there. In our soceity, it's inevitable. I like to think that I was friends with many, but not really associated with any real group, other than my peer group.

If you ask anyone that knows me about something that sticks out about ME, it would be my memory. Good or bad. I do have many great memories from those years, but I am still haunted by some. I am not angry about being  sent to RMA, maybe because I was well aware of the alternatives... mine were not that great. I agree that some  kids had better alternatives that were not utilized. I also agree that some kids should never have been sent to a place like RMA. I will also say for every "mean", "hurtful" staff person, there was another that truly cared. I just can't get that angry about it. Maybe I am warped because I am not, I don't know. I read many of these posts and I just don't feel the same way. No, I am not pro-RMA, but "it was what it was". I miss my friends  from those days, I keep in touch with VERY few.

Ok, I am rambling....

[try another castle]

Well, what I meant was, that you probably graduated before I got there, or graduated shortly after I got there. I know that for me, I don't remember any of the new students who came in close to my graduation. Although I don't remember the names of a lot of the students anyway.

I don't remember Brian Bates. Do you recall which peer group he was in, or when he graduated?

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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:45 ]

[Anonymous]

Brian bates [If that was his first name] was a lower level staffer.

[Anonymous]

RE: anon post RMA 85-87

In terms of anger at being sent to RMA -- Sure I wish that was not sent there, sometimes I wonder about the person I would have been if I was not sent there, or if my parents picked up the tab [or even a portion of the tab] for my undergrad degree.

But at the same time, it really does not matter what I might have been or could have been or how my life could have been different.    What seems important is the now.    

I do not harbor a grudge against any of the staffers at RMA.  Yes, I think the program was crap.   But the staffers at RMA were simply staffers, doing a job.

When I think of some of the very off statements that were said to me in raps or profeets, I do not feel pain.   Its weird but I do not place much value on the statements.   Who cares about what staffer 'X' said about me?    That was over half my lifetime ago, and really has no bearing on today.

Occasionally, when I think back to how arbitary the envirnoment was and I remember how alone I felt at RMA.  I am sad that my childhood was not filled with stability and happiness.  

There is a part of me that is mourning the lose  of healthy childhood.   Yes, it is a bit lame to mourn what could have been nearly twenty years later.

It fair to say that I am anti-rma, but not to the point that RMA consumes any meaningful amount of my time.

If you have time there have been posts from others during our stay at RMA.    Try searching the site -- in some cases it great to see what other folks are up to, or what they think of RMA.   In some cases the third-hand stories are not so great.

[Anonymous]

Brian Bates...you mean "Gomer"? I was there from 02/85-12/86...only 22 months for me...you were there 34 months? What's up with that? I only knew one person there who could have possibly been there 34 months.

I just found this site...and I'm damn glad I did. It seems like everybody has alot of anger towards some of the staff...some of them definitely did suck...too bad more of them couldn't have been like Rod Barkley or Bret & Lisa Carey

[try another castle]

Holy crap, I remember Rod. He would grade my papers with an "A++++++", and I'd be like "What the fuck grading scale is he using?"

I liked Will. He was the rather tall balding blonde guy who taught math. I really dug him because he would tell us stories about when he was an engineer on a nuclear sub during his navy days.

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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:46 ]

[Anonymous]

grading scale...hahaha....you mean for their "so called" academics in the 80's?

Will Venard was cool too...we always tried to get him to divulge info on the subs that he supposedly worked on...his brother Bob Vernard was cool also.

[try another castle]

On 2006-01-10 10:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

Will Venard was cool too...we always tried to get him to divulge info on the subs that he supposedly worked on...his brother Bob Vernard was cool also.

OMG! We did the exact same thing! We'd ask him all these questions and he'd say "I'm sorry, that's classified." and we'd get such a charge out of that. He had some great stories, though. The one's he was allowed to tell us, that is. He'd tell us stories about all of the trouble he and his navy friends would get into on shore leave, too.

No doubt. Will was cool. He definitely had slack.

I also remember the time Rod took us to the Kootenai indian reservation on a field trip, and he actually knew more about their history than the curator of the tribe's museum did. He actually stumped the guy a few times. How sad.

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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:46 ]

[Anonymous]

Yes, I was there a VERY long time. Summer of 1985 until Spring of  1988. Eeekkk...

Again.. there were some very low times there. And some horrible things said to me, some that I can never forget. But, I guess I choose to  focus on what was positive about being there. I think that I had some great friends. We had some good times... on expeditions. "PUKE ON ME" was  our "band" where someof the guys would play air guitar and sing  the funniest lyrics. Damn... I had not thought about that until now. Makes me smile. Or some of the discussions on the smoking porch. I would sit out there for hours and hours talking to people... and then regreeting it by Friday because I would have smoked all  4 pakcs that had been issued to me the previous Sunday. :smile: I enjoyed teasing Nils about not being able to speak English. He went on his first expedition with my peer group and we screwed with him over and over. We were not  trying to be malicious, just having fun.

My point is that I do have good memories. I do feel an attachment to  RMA... not because of the program or even most of the staff. But because it was a chapter in my life that I shared with some  truly great people...

[Anonymous]

amazing that you were in the peer group below me...yet graduated 1 1/2 years after me...go figure...since you played "air guitar"...I can assume that you are not "Boogie"...in fact I could probably list 5 names here and one of them would be yours.

I remembered the good stuff for a long time but I had completely blocked all memories of raps, propheets and the workshops.  If people ever asked where I went to high school...I would describe RMA the same way every time like a robot...focusing only on the expeditions, work program and the only thing that I could say about the "therapy" was that I had left with some "good tools"...I sure wish I knew what those so called "tools" are and how they apply to the outside world.

I'm not trying to discount your experience there, but for some of us it was pretty traumatic as we really needed a more individually tailored form of "therapy" rather than just getting yelled at en masse.

[try another castle]

On 2006-01-13 16:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yes, I was there a VERY long time. Summer of 1985 until Spring of  1988. Eeekkk...



Again.. there were some very low times there. And some horrible things said to me, some that I can never forget. But, I guess I choose to  focus on what was positive about being there. I think that I had some great friends. We had some good times... on expeditions. "PUKE ON ME" was  our "band" where someof the guys would play air guitar and sing  the funniest lyrics. Damn... I had not thought about that until now. Makes me smile. Or some of the discussions on the smoking porch. I would sit out there for hours and hours talking to people... and then regreeting it by Friday because I would have smoked all  4 pakcs that had been issued to me the previous Sunday. :smile: I enjoyed teasing Nils about not being able to speak English. He went on his first expedition with my peer group and we screwed with him over and over. We were not  trying to be malicious, just having fun.



My point is that I do have good memories. I do feel an attachment to  RMA... not because of the program or even most of the staff. But because it was a chapter in my life that I shared with some  truly great people... "

You must have been dropped a peer group. You graduated when I was there. There are a couple of people who come to mind that I recall being dropped. One of them was a friend of mine, actually, (when he wasn't on bans from me and we could actually speak to each other.) He was on bans from the lower school a lot. He wasn't a close close friend, but we liked to hang out occaisionally.

The other person I remember being dropped was because she was really young and they wanted her to graduate when she was older. We weren't close, but I remember her and one other girl being the best spit players in the school. She was also pretty good at hearts, if memory serves.

Ahh, spit. What an awesome game. My pack of cards was like my best friend at that school. Hearts, spades, spit, and my friend and I also really liked skip-bo, which was played with two decks, I think.

[Anonymous]

maggie maggie maggie...I am surprised that you take such a one sided view towards RMA.  I'm not surprised as I understand you have a child in one of these schools.  I am curious...will the next child go there...what about the 3rd and 4th child that you have? How many children will you send there before you realize that the problem might not lie with the child but with the parent?

You comment on Lon's website that the people on Fornits are very abusive.  I feel that the most abuse comes from people attacking those that say that there were certain aspects of the program that are NOT GOOD FOR CHILDREN.

I find it interesting that the people that seem to have done well after RMA come to these boards in order to tell people that are having difficulties with what they went through to get over it.  Why on earth would somebody who's life was so wonderously affected by the program even feel the need to look for it on the web...and why would they need to discount the fact that other peoples experiences were not similar to yours?

Try telling people about "boogies" experience at RMA...should he have been there?  Should the school have done something else with him other than "warehousing" him. I mean really...isn't 4 years in a program long enough to realize that yelling at him in raps, allowing him to be abused by other students without any consequence and putting him on work details all the time wasn't what he needed?

If the school really cared about the students then here is a perfect example of where they went wrong.