Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Mission Mountain School
a letter to john
katfish:
OMG, Liz-
I have to apologize to you for extending my animosity toward John and his forceful use of the 12 steps to AA in general...AA certainly has some problem, but you pointed to the fact that you can't force the program on anyone and, as I read 'Help at Any Cost' and re-read your e-mail it's true! John took AA and made it into a tool of force...
I also wrote this on CAFETY, but thought it important to put this post here as well
----
Has anyone picked up this book- Help at Any Cost: How the Trouble Teen Industry Cons Parents and Hurts Kids?
I'm about 1/4 through. The first hundered pages honestly brought me to tears, not that this is anything new, but Maia points out how coercive psychology produces devout, committed individuals to the program, often regardless of whether or not the program had actually worked on them, and often when there is evidence to the contrary. How often people become supporters of their own mistreatment.
I remember when my life was in shambles after I left the program I attended and I continued saying, and even wrote a long heartfelt letter to the headmaster and his wife about how much I had learned, how grateful I was and how the program saved me. That was around the time when things were at one of the lowest points in my life and the reality was my life was far worse.
It's difficult to explain to people what happens when your mind is raped, myself and other girls that attended Mission Mountain School often say that it would have been so much easier if we had actually been raped or physically brutalized in the sense that there would be evidence, some physical action- not the insidious coercive psychology used. Our minds, being brutalized, carried lasting, but difficult to identify, consequences esp- while your living amidsy it's contradictions and confused by it. When reason and your own internal voice (if they haven't successfully and completely squashed it!) tells you one thing and everything you are told that 'saved' you contradicts that...then you have to go through the depression and anxiety of finally finding your own voice again, of making sense of the nonsensical... it's hard to realign yourself- at least it was for me.
Also, b/c the program was 12 steps based I was became an AA fanatic and it was difficult for me to not become the self-important prostelitizer that I had been taught to be at MMS, only later to be turned off from AA forever.
I also learned/realized that AA does not endore force- you can't force someone into sobriety...not to mention, you can't label people addicts w/o thouroughly analyzing their history and being an expert- not the, "I'm an expert b/c I'm an addict to" kind either- and that history can't come by coercive methods which have been proven to induce false confessions...I lied so frequently at this facility...the truth became meaningless....
Anyway- I was just happy to see Maia address this point and to see it in print finally....
BarnardlyB:
"It's difficult to explain to people what happens when your mind is raped, myself and other girls that attended Mission Mountain School often say that it would have been so much easier if we had actually been raped or physically brutalized in the sense that there would be evidence, some physical action- not the insidious coercive psychology used. Our minds, being brutalized, carried lasting, but difficult to identify."
Okay, Okay, girls.....seems your getting out of hand.
How is it that us girls who agree with the school, can take a step back and agree with those of you who obviously HATE the school yet NONE of you can take a step back and understand where we (girls who agree with the school) stand???
Kat, your starting to get my blood boiling. My mom has treated me and talked to me worse than the school ever did. Maybe if you opened up your mind and looked at it in a different light it may be different.
Quit living your life in the past....MMS has changed since weve been there.
Ask any of the girls who just left of they ever did 3-6 hr exercise......a girl never met john till after being there for 2 years.....
Doesn't that give you a hint??? a clue???
I undestand your fight but why is it that you don't care who you hurt while your at it....if you truly believe that MMS is that bad than your leveling yourself with them.......why do that?? Why focus on your pain and not MOVE ON!!!!!!!
Im not the only one that sees it this way....im just the only one who says it. Why is it that you can't find or get ahold of most of the girls you and I went to MMS with together??? Cause they agree with me.............
I know im gonna get a ton disagreeing and attacking responses.........im ready.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---
Okay, Okay, girls.....seems your getting out of hand.
1.How is it that us girls who agree with the school, can take a step back and agree with those of you who obviously HATE the school yet NONE of you can take a step back and understand where we (girls who agree with the school) stand???
2.Kat, your starting to get my blood boiling. My mom has treated me and talked to me worse than the school ever did. Maybe if you opened up your mind and looked at it in a different light it may be different.
.
3.Ask any of the girls who just left of they ever did 3-6 hr exercise......a girl never met john till after being there for 2 years.....
4.I undestand your fight but why is it that you don't care who you hurt while your at it....if you truly believe that MMS is that bad than your leveling yourself with them.......why do that?? Why focus on your pain and not MOVE ON!!!!!!!
5. Im not the only one that sees it this way....im just the only one who says it. Why is it that you can't find or get ahold of most of the girls you and I went to MMS with together??? Cause they agree with me.............
"
--- End quote ---
1. i think some girls state it helped, but most disagree with methods but ally themselves fully with the program due to ...oddly, as Maia explains it, human nature. when you're told repeatedly that you are being helped, even if you're being harmed you tend to go along with it- see maia's book for more on that sort of 'quirk' in humans. people often become complicit in their own mistreatment, and defend it with great self-importance and loyalty...sound familiar?
2. i don't know what that means, parentental extra mistreatment doesn't jsutify mms mistreament, does it?
3. yea, i hear john is not around much anymore- that's good as far as I'm concerned. Still, i've also heard some strange issues coming out of mms too- perhaps none reflect the same trauma I felt subjected to, but certainly still enough to cause concern
4. i'm wondering who you're referring to b/c I have maintained contact with a number of people who have explicity stated otherwise- although that's quite irrelevant in any case, this is not a popularity conference. Efficacy is not about numbers, per se- ---I 'd be willing to bet that a rather large number of people who went to MMS have gone on to 'fuck up' afterwards (or never needed to be there to begin with and didnt') Many I speak to got worse though, but still say MMS helped- go figure...again, human quirk- also recommend you pcik up Maia's book- MMS alumni have shared their stories with Congress and the press...
Betsy, I'm sorry you don't understand and feel angered by what I've chosen to focus on in my life...but I'm not- call it social conscience. I understand that criticisms of the school make you angry, but I'm guessing that perhaps it is time for you to move on from that b/c I assure you that my work won't be heading in any other direction very soon.
Oddly, I'm not sure what it is you want me to stop exactly...please explain... But as far as having this same dialogue w/ you, I'm done. It's just rehash of same old shpeel- you not getting it, and me trying to explain and you still not getting it...that's ok, though. read Maia's book, maybe read something about psychology- perhaps the mistreatment will become clrearer to you and the lack of efficacy of such 'treatment' at MMS will also become clearer... This goes beyond MMS, it's what has been proven...MMS like tactics, like in our day, simply have been dubunked- period. it's science, but not rocket science. :wink:
BarnardlyB:
Kat,
Its not that I don't understand your fight, Ive told you that many times.
Its not that I don't understand where you stand, that I have also, told you many times.
I saw what happened to many of the 'older students' after MMS. I saw what happened to Blair and Liz, who I spent my whole time at MMS with.
I know your fight won't stop and neither will my desire for you to step back and take a look at the new stucture and new methods that are taking place yet 10-12 years after you have been associated with MMS........
Just take a look Kat....thats all im asking.
One thing im truly greatful for MMS is, that either though those of us who have gone there may have different opionions we are all still friends.
love ya
B
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2006-02-22 20:35:00, BarnardlyB wrote:
I know your fight won't stop and neither will my desire for you to step back and take a look at the new stucture and new methods that are taking place yet 10-12 years after you have been associated with MMS........
Just take a look Kat....thats all im asking.
One thing im truly greatful for MMS is, that either though those of us who have gone there may have different opionions we are all still friends.
love ya
B
"
--- End quote ---
well, even if there are some structural changes, teh output still is of concern. On top of that, there exists no data to suggest that MMS is effective...that is also problematic. If we begin to introduce human rights or even ehtical princples of mental health community and systemes of care into the mix, the idea that young people deserve the least restrictive setting possible, esp when other methods have been proven effective we run into problems in terms of MMS and the industry in general poses. Its an efficacy problem as well as an ethical problem... So, while you suggest I move on, I believe this issue to be not only MMS issue but a far larger issue. It's cultural, its misinformation, but at it's root is in ethics, as I see it, and not so much a scientific problem. MHP know what works, they KNOW, the data is there, but implementation is the problem. Oh, and what works is not the type of things MMS practices, and certainly not refelcted in the imprisonment of youth for years.
Kids simply, mostly do not need to be sent away. If they are, there saftey needs to be insured and the care provided should be proven to work through independent research. Young people should have the ability to contest placement and access advocates to ensure their well being. These are the principles of the mental health field- which includes behavrioal, emotional problems , but private industry has taken a diverging turn and locked up so many kids uneccesarily (and of course, used techniques which, when I speak, is appaling to professionals) and decided that making money off desperation of parents is ...well, more profitable and 'better' than going ahead and using what works. Community, family, holistic... So, while you also say that MMS was great for you, and yet mis treatment occured, well, dont' you have trouble reconciling those points? Does that even make any sense when you start to consider what 'therapy' and care acutally look like? And start to consider the extent that John has harmed young girls who were deserving of real therapy?
In anycase, as I mentioned, John's history and what people continually say about him is enough to cause concern as well- I find it doubtful that it is possible for him to work with kids w/o harming them. I know that he's not too hands on anymore, which is great, but whose to say that will always be the case. Whose to say his questionabl ethical code is not repeatedly being imposed upon staff...and, most importantly, how can we be sure no young girls will leave MMs years from now traumatized and seeking therapy for an experience that was supposed to be therapeutic??
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