Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones
RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Awake" ---
So if the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?
.
--- End quote ---
That’s actually a really good question, Awake. I guess they would be viewed as abusive. But would they know it themselves? Maybe they feel they are doing good.
Take the girl at the pharmacy counter who gives you the morning after pill. Does she know what she is giving you? Is she considered complicit in the murder of an unborn child? Is the Pharmacist that fills the prescription? Or just The doctor who prescribed it?
...
Awake:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Awake" ---
So if the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?
.
--- End quote ---
That’s actually a really good question, Awake. I guess they would be viewed as abusive. But would they know it themselves? Maybe they feel they are doing good.
Take the girl at the pharmacy counter who gives you the morning after pill. Does she know what she is giving you? Is she considered complicit in the murder of an unborn child? Is the Pharmacist that fills the prescription? Or just The doctor who prescribed it?
...
--- End quote ---
What if the pill isn't a pill but a direct action that controls the behavior and autonomy of another? Holding someone to the ground, insulting them, telling to 'fight for their life'. I'm really not going to go into the whole of Cedu with you, but I'll assert right now that the entire context was abusive, and I'll defend that statement if you want. I think it's a good question too.
If the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?
I don't society has enough insight into these programs to make a clear, ethical judgement for how we should prosecute abuse in the troubled teen industry, and it can't operate ethically until we do.
.
Samara:
Whooter, it defies logic that you say you can't imagine parents who would send their children to the places I describe. Well, I agree it defies logic. But it is also common. The brochures look good. The marketing looks good. Parents are worn out and tired and frankly, many just don't give a damn... I know many, many, many students who 20 years later have PTSD and their parents still insist the programs "saved" them. Denial. I split from the program and was still so brainwashed I probably would have done a pro-program PSA for years afterward. Many "successful" graduate students would say the same. It takes a while for the kool aid to wear off. You divest so much of yourself that you can't accept it was all for naught.
And do not condescend to tell me that I can't fathom what these parents are going through. Yes, I can.
And you know what? Some are desperate and terrified. But some are totally self involved schmucks who just warehouse kids after they f*ck them up the way other people outsource IT jobs. And so many kids were sent to these programs at the behest of their lovely new step parents.
The accountability argument - parent vs. student - does not factor into the acceptance of absuive programs.
My program spouted many of the same components your's did... Doesn't make it true.
The issue for me is why you keep pretending this issue is isolated? Do you go on rape forums and tell the women there that it really didn't happen except in a few isolated cases?
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Awake" ---
What if the pill isn't a pill but a direct action that controls the behavior and autonomy of another? Holding someone to the ground, insulting them, telling to 'fight for their life'. I'm really not going to go into the whole of Cedu with you, but I'll assert right now that the entire context was abusive, and I'll defend that statement if you want. I think it's a good question too.
If the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?
I don't society has enough insight into these programs to make a clear, ethical judgement for how we should prosecute abuse in the troubled teen industry, and it can't operate ethically until we do.
.
--- End quote ---
I think one needs to decide what the vantage point is before the answer can be attained.
For example if we looked at the staff administering chemotherapy and watched the child slowly get sick, start vomiting, watch her hair fall out, watch her cry and become too embarrassed to have her friends see her. It is clearly abusive(short term) but we accept it because the abuse may make her better long term.
The same may be true with the staff at these programs that you describe. You also might consider that very few people could maintain a job where they wake knowing they are going to abusing children. I couldn’t imagine that any of them feel that way.
...
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Samara" ---Whooter, it defies logic that you say you can't imagine parents who would send their children to the places I describe. Well, I agree it defies logic. But it is also common. The brochures look good. The marketing looks good. Parents are worn out and tired and frankly, many just don't give a damn... I know many, many, many students who 20 years later have PTSD and their parents still insist the programs "saved" them. Denial. I split from the program and was still so brainwashed I probably would have done a pro-program PSA for years afterward. Many "successful" graduate students would say the same. It takes a while for the kool aid to wear off. You divest so much of yourself that you can't accept it was all for naught.
And do not condescend to tell me that I can't fathom what these parents are going through. Yes, I can.
--- End quote ---
So we should agree that the parents like myself can easily understand what the kids are going through?
--- Quote ---And you know what? Some are desperate and terrified. But some are totally self involved schmucks who just warehouse kids after they f*ck them up the way other people outsource IT jobs. And so many kids were sent to these programs at the behest of their lovely new step parents.
--- End quote ---
Yes, there are all types of parents that cover the whole spectrum.
--- Quote ---The accountability argument - parent vs. student - does not factor into the acceptance of absuive programs.
--- End quote ---
No it doesn’t, I agree. The accountability I was speaking of was the events leading up to placement. Prior to treatment.
--- Quote ---My program spouted many of the same components your's did... Doesn't make it true.
--- End quote ---
Exactly, that is why it is a good idea for parents to speak with other parents and kids who went through the program. You shouldn’t choose a place based on their brochure.
--- Quote ---The issue for me is why you keep pretending this issue is isolated? Do you go on rape forums and tell the women there that it really didn't happen except in a few isolated cases?
--- End quote ---
But if they were raped by a teacher in a public school they should be told that not all teachers are rapists. If their rape was an isolated case they should be told so that they can begin to feel safe again reemerging back into their society.
...
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version