Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones
RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Well... often, that *is* exactly what happens. When you first leave or exit a program, you are generally still interpreting "your reality" as defined by the ideological system in which you were recently immersed. This indoctrination often wears off over time and with exposure to the "real world," although not always.
--- End quote ---
I believe this is what you tell yourself and what you need to believe because it would shake your world too much to realize the truth that most people do well in programs and move on with their lives. If you ever tried to float this idea to any professional (or most people outside of fornits) you would be surprised by his/her response.
--- End quote ---
Classic Whooter-style: derail the difficult questions by attacking the questioner with attempts at invalidating their experience or perspective.
Sorry, Whooter, I really don't need to believe anything, and whichever way it was or is ... is not going to "shake my world too much" one way or another at this point. It is what it is, and perhaps it's time that you came to terms with the fact that the propaganda that you spew is not a harmless moneymaker or stock price booster but in fact, fraudulent advertising for programs that affect some kids and their families in very real, tangible, and not in the least bit beneficial ways. And sometimes, with all too fatal consequences.
One really has to wonder about what sort of life lessons these kids' peers learn, the ones who ostensibly "do well in programs and move on with their lives."
I dunno 'bout you, but if a peer of mine in program were to die or even to suffer long term trauma as a direct result of the "programming" we were subjected to... it wouldn't matter how "great" a time I had, the experience would be seriously tainted for me.
And if I had any kind of moral backbone in me, I would probably begin to seriously QUESTION the veracity of said methodologies used. And probably also the ideology behind it as well, as I got in deeper. Doncha think?
Or does it simply boil down to a question of dollars and cents for you? Or, perhaps, a rationalization of your own now irrevocable choices made in the past?
Credo of behavioral and mental health professionals: First, Do No Harm.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Classic Whooter-style: derail the difficult questions by attacking the questioner with attempts at invalidating their experience or perspective.
Sorry, Whooter, I really don't need to believe anything, and whichever way it was or is ... is not going to "shake my world too much" one way or another at this point. It is what it is, and perhaps it's time that you came to terms with the fact that the propaganda that you spew is not a harmless moneymaker or stock price booster but in fact, fraudulent advertising for programs that affect some kids and their families in very real, tangible, and not in the least bit beneficial ways. And sometimes, with all too fatal consequences.
--- End quote ---
That was nice, Ursus, but we both know there is no propaganda being spewed and there is no intent to derail the thread. This is your interpretation of information which goes against your thinking. Again with the fatal consequences. I am sure if this were public school you would be showing us photos of columbine high School trying to convince us that kids will die if you send them to public school.
--- Quote ---One really has to wonder about what sort of life lessons these kids' peers learn, the ones who ostensibly "do well in programs and move on with their lives."
I dunno 'bout you, but if a peer of mine in program were to die or even to suffer long term trauma as a direct result of the "programming" we were subjected to... it wouldn't matter how "great" a time I had, the experience would be seriously tainted for me.
And if I had any kind of moral backbone in me, I would probably begin to seriously QUESTION the veracity of said methodologies used. And probably also the ideology behind it as well, as I got in deeper. Doncha think?
Or does it simply boil down to a question of dollars and cents for you? Or, perhaps, a rationalization of your own now irrevocable choices made in the past?
Credo of behavioral and mental health professionals: First, Do No Harm.
--- End quote ---
I have experienced someone being hurt severely and it did taint my recollection of my time there. It was a terrible summer. But the difference between you and me is I can see that other kids in my group had a good time. The terrible event didn’t warp my entire perception on life. You stated yourself that you cannot relate at all to all these kids who do well in programs and you cannot understand what life lesson they learn. This is a short coming of yours (not mine or everyone else’s) or the children being helped.
I think it is good that you dig in and find out why your friend was hurt so bad and try to prevent others from getting hurt too. But you need to gather more wide spread data, more of a balance so that you get a better perspective on what you are fighting. You have reduced yourself to a point that you can discard a program if an employee worked previously at CEDU or you can toss aside a software program because IBM did business with the Germans in 1937. This shows you are not really interested in finding the truth about how these individual programs work rather you just want a reason not to look too closely. I think the reason for this is you will have to admit that they are graduating kids who are doing really well and the ones that don’t do well are the anomaly.
I am also curious as to why would you not acknowledge that it is a good step for a program to open up a discussion with alumnus to gather feedback on the program? I know from reading here on fornits that this would be a big step for a cult. What is everyone afraid of? Are you afraid that you will find out that these are not the big bad programs that you have created here on the forum?
...
maruska:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Classic Whooter-style: derail the difficult questions by attacking the questioner with attempts at invalidating their experience or perspective.
Sorry, Whooter, I really don't need to believe anything, and whichever way it was or is ... is not going to "shake my world too much" one way or another at this point. It is what it is, and perhaps it's time that you came to terms with the fact that the propaganda that you spew is not a harmless moneymaker or stock price booster but in fact, fraudulent advertising for programs that affect some kids and their families in very real, tangible, and not in the least bit beneficial ways. And sometimes, with all too fatal consequences.
--- End quote ---
That was nice, Ursus, but we both know there is no propaganda being spewed and there is no intent to derail the thread. This is your interpretation of information which goes against your thinking. Again with the fatal consequences. I am sure if this were public school you would be showing us photos of columbine high School trying to convince us that kids will die if you send them to public school.
--- Quote ---One really has to wonder about what sort of life lessons these kids' peers learn, the ones who ostensibly "do well in programs and move on with their lives."
I dunno 'bout you, but if a peer of mine in program were to die or even to suffer long term trauma as a direct result of the "programming" we were subjected to... it wouldn't matter how "great" a time I had, the experience would be seriously tainted for me.
And if I had any kind of moral backbone in me, I would probably begin to seriously QUESTION the veracity of said methodologies used. And probably also the ideology behind it as well, as I got in deeper. Doncha think?
Or does it simply boil down to a question of dollars and cents for you? Or, perhaps, a rationalization of your own now irrevocable choices made in the past?
Credo of behavioral and mental health professionals: First, Do No Harm.
--- End quote ---
I have experienced someone being hurt severely and it did taint my recollection of my time there. It was a terrible summer. But the difference between you and me is I can see that other kids in my group had a good time. The terrible event didn’t warp my entire perception on life. You stated yourself that you cannot relate at all to all these kids who do well in programs and you cannot understand what life lesson they learn. This is a short coming of yours (not mine or everyone else’s) or the children being helped.
I think it is good that you dig in and find out why your friend was hurt so bad and try to prevent others from getting hurt too. But you need to gather more wide spread data, more of a balance so that you get a better perspective on what you are fighting. You have reduced yourself to a point that you can discard a program if an employee worked previously at CEDU or you can toss aside a software program because IBM did business with the Germans in 1937. This shows you are not really interested in finding the truth about how these individual programs work rather you just want a reason not to look too closely. I think the reason for this is you will have to admit that they are graduating kids who are doing really well and the ones that don’t do well are the anomaly.
I am also curious as to why would you not acknowledge that it is a good step for a program to open up a discussion with alumnus to gather feedback on the program? I know from reading here on fornits that this would be a big step for a cult. What is everyone afraid of? Are you afraid that you will find out that these are not the big bad programs that you have created here on the forum?
...
--- End quote ---
Now I am confused again...would you explain what are you talking about?
Did you work for a program? Or were you in a program as a child?
maruska:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "maruska" ---I love to read blogs about this topic. Would you send me some links ? That would be lovely!
And which programs do you consider good and which are not? I must admit I find in every program something that bothers me to the point I would never send my child there , so I wonder.
--- End quote ---
I know exactly what you mean. If I didn’t have a need for programs I would never send my child to one. Take hospitals for example, people get all types of diseases from blood transfusions, viruses in operating rooms and germs on the waiting room. I don’t think I could find one hospital in the country I would want any of my family members in. But if I were faced with the decision of having to take them to one I would do it.
I tried getting people interested in rating programs here on fornits but no one was interested and many got outright upset when I posted programs I thought were good. So I will take a pass on naming any for both out sakes. As far as the blogs go I don’t keep a list of favorites. I sometimes google a program name or key word and discover blogs that way.
--- Quote ---Also when you write that your daughter connected with lots people on a reunion site for ASR...does that mean she did not maintain that friendship with her peers after she left ASR? (In my country we have a very strong bond with our classmates , because we usually attend school together for many years and the friendships last a life time:)
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There were a few that she has kept in contact with, but with this facebook program that she uses she has connected with lots of people she lost touch with including staff. This also gave her an opportunity to meet other people who went thru ASR who she never met before.
--- Quote ---And lastly...what is DJ talking about? What " fiduciary interest in Aspen, his ties to RMA in the 1990's and his TTI meeting in Chicago concerning 'where the real money is, the TBS industry ? " What does that mean?
--- End quote ---
Ha,Ha,Ha oh boy, you will have to go speak to DJ about that. If you look at the bottom of his posts you will see he has created a little altar (tongue in cheek) to me in his footer. His project is my history here on fornits and trying to make his own sense out of various sound bites I have made over the years. I couldn’t begin to explain them here for you because I dont remember most of them, but if you are interested you can go back and read via DJ’s links in his footer (just click on one). But you need to go back several pages to understand the gist of the conversation so that they are understood in context if that interests you.
...
--- End quote ---
You could not find one hospital in the country you would want any of your family members in? I am sorry to hear that. I did not know the US health system is so terrible...move to Europe! You will find plenty of great hospitals here!
As far as blogs...come one! Please, name a few! I really am not as good at finding them obviously Thanks in advance!
And regarding going back several pages, I do not have time for that...
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "maruska" ---
You could not find one hospital in the country you would want any of your family members in? I am sorry to hear that. I did not know the US health system is so terrible...move to Europe! You will find plenty of great hospitals here!
As far as blogs...come one! Please, name a few! I really am not as good at finding them obviously Thanks in advance!
And regarding going back several pages, I do not have time for that...
--- End quote ---
The health Care we get here is good (well at least now, we will see what Obama care does lol), but the risk of infection and disease is very high for those entering or staying at a hospital because hospitals are not the cleanest places. So if you can avoid them you should. Europe is much worse off than we are…Link to an article
I don’t really want to read back either but I think the point was that no one wants to place their child into a program any more than they would want to put their child into a hospital. But the decision is based on need and we do what we have to to keep our families safe.
...
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