Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones
RMA staff I remember from RMA, you post yours from CEDU
Anne Bonney:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Sorry, Anne, you got caught in another lie. You make statements about people that are not true ( we both know that).
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Nope. That's your gig dude.
--- Quote ---Go back to your original statement and own what you said. Calling me names isnt going to help your credibility here.
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'saright.....we all knew you'd try to weasel out of it. You've just proven, again, that you're a liar.
Awake:
If we’re going to talk about things that way I never got a realistic answer to our conversation Whooter. Why should these institutions operate before they practice?
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--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
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So if the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?
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That’s actually a really good question, Awake. I guess they would be viewed as abusive. But would they know it themselves? Maybe they feel they are doing good.
Take the girl at the pharmacy counter who gives you the morning after pill. Does she know what she is giving you? Is she considered complicit in the murder of an unborn child? Is the Pharmacist that fills the prescription? Or just The doctor who prescribed it?
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What if the pill isn't a pill but a direct action that controls the behavior and autonomy of another? Holding someone to the ground, insulting them, telling to 'fight for their life'. I'm really not going to go into the whole of Cedu with you, but I'll assert right now that the entire context was abusive, and I'll defend that statement if you want. I think it's a good question too.
If the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?
I don't society has enough insight into these programs to make a clear, ethical judgement for how we should prosecute abuse in the troubled teen industry, and it can't operate ethically until we do.
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--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Awake" ---
What if the pill isn't a pill but a direct action that controls the behavior and autonomy of another? Holding someone to the ground, insulting them, telling to 'fight for their life'. I'm really not going to go into the whole of Cedu with you, but I'll assert right now that the entire context was abusive, and I'll defend that statement if you want. I think it's a good question too.
If the program is abusive by nature, and the staff are implementing it accordingly, that does not make the staff abusive?
I don't society has enough insight into these programs to make a clear, ethical judgement for how we should prosecute abuse in the troubled teen industry, and it can't operate ethically until we do.
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I think one needs to decide what the vantage point is before the answer can be attained.
For example if we looked at the staff administering chemotherapy and watched the child slowly get sick, start vomiting, watch her hair fall out, watch her cry and become too embarrassed to have her friends see her. It is clearly abusive(short term) but we accept it because the abuse may make her better long term.
The same may be true with the staff at these programs that you describe. You also might consider that very few people could maintain a job where they wake knowing they are going to abusing children. I couldn’t imagine that any of them feel that way.
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So we need to develop a vantage point AFTER they operate? Why? We have standards in the health industry that clearly define how chemotherapy is to be applied. If the doctor misuses it, he will be prosecuted. The therapy itself is not applied without extremely thourough testing that proves it to be safe for use.
Why are we going to skip this step to let these institutions ‘practice’?
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You’re previous answer is an example of transactional disqualification Whooter. It takes our conversation out of its original context without answering the question.
I won’t waste my time picking over the flaws in your statement, but I will pose the question to everyone else.
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--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Awake" ---So we need to develop a vantage point AFTER they operate? Why?
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I am not saying we need to develop a vantage point anywhere. What I meant is if you just saw the Chemo effects and that was all you were exposed to then you may conclude that the child was being abused. If you stepped back and saw the sick child walk into the hospital and then visited her a year later (without seeing the process she went through) and saw her healthy you would conclude that the process was not abusive or hurtful to the child.
--- Quote ---We have standards in the health industry that clearly define how chemotherapy is to be applied. If the doctor misuses it, he will be prosecuted. The therapy itself is not applied without extremely thourough testing that proves it to be safe for use.
Why are we going to skip this step to let these institutions ‘practice’?
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I don’t think we are going to skip any step. I am not aware of any Defined standards for Therapeutic schools as far as their modalities or processes go.
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Why shouldn’t parents want clear standards here?
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Samara:
First, Whooter, Anne has been consistent on these threads for the duration. You have not. Your strength is articulation and retaining a level of calm, which sometimes veers toward subtle contempt. Usually, you try to keep a lid on that because you are smart enough to know that levelheaded debate appears more credible to those who are inexperienced in these matters. But there are a lot of level headed sociopaths out there. They're calm because they don't care. They lack empathy.
The fact is, if you really are BFFs with Rudy Bentz, former CEDU power staff, it says a lot about you as a person. RB was cult guru and inculcated all at the same time. There are many people who would love to talk to him face to face.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Samara" ---First, Whooter, Anne has been consistent on these threads for the duration. You have not. Your strength is articulation and retaining a level of calm, which sometimes veers toward subtle contempt. Usually, you try to keep a lid on that because you are smart enough to know that levelheaded debate appears more credible to those who are inexperienced in these matters. But there are a lot of level headed sociopaths out there. They're calm because they don't care. They lack empathy.
The fact is, if you really are BFFs with Rudy Bentz, former CEDU power staff, it says a lot about you as a person. RB was cult guru and inculcated all at the same time. There are many people who would love to talk to him face to face.
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Thats classic, Samara. so now I am BFF's with Rudy Bentz? Where do you come up with this?
What if I said: "Samara I think that you are level headed and calm and I would believe what you say but if it is true that you have been convicted of sexual abuse and have worked as staff in several programs and been fired there are many people who would love to speak with you."
Its okay with you that we just make up theoretical conditions to discuss?
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Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Awake" ---If we’re going to talk about things that way I never got a realistic answer to our conversation Whooter. Why should these institutions operate before they practice?
Why shouldn’t parents want clear standards here?
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If given the choice I am sure they would want standards. Personally I would like to see standards put into place. I would like to see these places visited and rated by an independent panel of professionals so that we know which ones are the better programs.
As far as I know there is no organization actively doing this. This probably would have to come from government regulation.
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