Controlling the Dialogue

[Troll Control]

Sadly, once again the meaningful dialogue about HLA has been obfuscated by tangential discussion about Mrs. Gray, as is her intention.  The more people spend wasteful time arguing with someone as uninformed and ignorant as Mrs. Gray, the more the truth about HLA gets buried.

Here are some facts about Mrs. Gray that will hopefully help others avoid trying to have meaningful dialogue with her:

1.  She has no knowledge of how HLA's program is employed.
2.  She has never worked in a therapeutic capacity at HLA or anywhere else.
3.  She was married to an HLA employee and was a clerical staffer there as well.
4.  She has never seen a "Realizations" group or seminar of any kind.
5.  She has never been on a "wilderness" excursion.
6.  She has never interacted with any clients on any level deeper than cursory conversation such as exchanging pleasantries or the like.
7.  She puts on a dogmatic support of HLA even when proven wrong about particulars or generalities.
8.  She has no education or training regarding TC's and all of the information she does have about HLA's treatment methods is second-hand or anecdotal.
9.  She's capable only of ad hominem fallacies and never discusses debatable issues, as she lacks the cognitive horsepower and educational gravitas to do so.

Please, don't feed the trolls.

[Anonymous]

Didn't your employment end at Hidden Lake Academy in 1995?  If that is the case, what makes you anymore of an expert about the school than anyone else.  The difference in the school now as opposed to then is amazing.

You are basing your opinions on out dated information.

[Troll Control]

I generally don't state my opinion.  I state facts.  I talk about events that I have witnessed and have seen with my own eyes.

What's disturbing about your claim that the "school" is "amazing" now is that kids who have been there as recently as a few weeks ago corroborate everything I said was going on a decade ago.  That speaks volumes.  It says that HLA has indeed not changed the way it does business or runs its "program."

Unfortunately, for those who would say HLA has learned from its early mistakes and has corrected them, it clearly has not and continues to allegedly abuse children psychologically and sometimes physically, as was the case when I worked there.  Even worse than what I witnessed there are the many accounts of sexual relations between staff and clients.  This includes an executive staff who allegedly had sexual relations with a client, was fired for it and was subsequently quietly rehired and promoted after the child involved had left the program.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."  It's a shame because HLA certainly has the financial resources to treat their clients in accordance with accepted mental health practices, but they simply choose not to do that.  I submit that the reason they behave this way is obvious: It's easier and they make more money.

If my "opinions" are "dated," please offer your explanation why children are currently being psychologically and physically abused at HLA.  Please also explain why staff who have sexual relations with children are still working at HLA.

Thanks.

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-01-26 15:11 ]

[Anonymous]

Your  facts then are based on the opinions of others.  Surely you understand that there are former students who will agree with anything you say soley because they are angry about being sent to HLA in the first place.  Be careful to differentiate between what you consider to be fact and what is obvious false rumor spreading by some angry former students.

[RobertBruce]

And theres the rub.

How do you know they arent telling the truth about their experiences.

Your talking directly out of the parents handbook at HLA.

"Your child will tell many half truths and manipulations when placed at HLA. He/she is only doing so because they initially angry concerning their placement here, eventually they will accept it."

Isnt it possible that maybe some of the claims that students tell their parents, and some of the stories students tell when they get out has nothing to do with being angry about anything, but maybe just maybe has something to do with the fact that the events they are recalling did in fact really happen?

Isnt it just possible?

[Troll Control]

On 2005-11-16 08:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Your  facts then are based on the opinions of others.  Surely you understand that there are former students who will agree with anything you say soley because they are angry about being sent to HLA in the first place.  Be careful to differentiate between what you consider to be fact and what is obvious false rumor spreading by some angry former students."

Again, ad hominem statements rather than contraindicative factual statements.

1.  I have never solicited any information from any former students to generate my statements.
2.  Any statements made by any former students (patients) were made willingly by them without influence from me, as I don't know them and have had no contact with them.
3.  There are simply too many nearly identical statements by many people including current and former staff and students over many, many years to discount them.

Let's face the facts.  There are illegal, immoral and unethical activities going on at HLA and there have been copious reports from many independent credible sources (including dozens of staff members, past and current).

Believe me when I tell you I'm not gullible and my bullshit detector has had a recent calibration.  The posters who seem not to be credible are ones that blindly defend HLA without regard to the fact that they have only anecdotal "evidence" to support their assertions and who try to argue with people who have direct first-hand knowledge.  Mrs. Gray is a prime example of what I consider to be a non-credible poster.

[Anonymous]

Of course it is possible.  I just have yet to see a claim that is true.  I have seen a lot of rumors, but nothing that I can point to that is fact.

[RobertBruce]

What in your mind makes them rumors?

A child comes out of there and says "Hey I was abused at HLA."

Why then automaticaly discount his or any other claim stating it simply to be a "rumor" rather than a fact?

If a woman claims she was raped is it declared to be a rumor? No shes generally believed and then the investigation follows.

[Troll Control]

Don't feed the trolls!

[Anonymous]

They are rumors because there is no evidence.  Someone saying something happened does not make it fact.  I could say that you raped someone last night and it holds not one bit of water because there is no evidence other than me saying it.  I can guarantee you that if there were any evidence of someone mistreating a student at HLA they would be gone in a heartbeat.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-11-18 05:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"They are rumors because there is no evidence.  Someone saying something happened does not make it fact.  I could say that you raped someone last night and it holds not one bit of water because there is no evidence other than me saying it.  I can guarantee you that if there were any evidence of someone mistreating a student at HLA they would be gone in a heartbeat."

A man named DP was reportedly fired for having sexual relations with a patient.  He was subsequently rehired and promoted after his paramour left.

[RobertBruce]

On 2005-11-18 05:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"They are rumors because there is no evidence.  Someone saying something happened does not make it fact.  I could say that you raped someone last night and it holds not one bit of water because there is no evidence other than me saying it.  I can guarantee you that if there were any evidence of someone mistreating a student at HLA they would be gone in a heartbeat."

Are you sure you want to stick with this argument?

Jimsir physically attacked an inmate at one point simply because the inmate made a smart ass comment to him. Jimsir is still currently employed by HLA is he not?

Is this your comment Susie?

If so how do you respond to this?

If not then what are your thoughts on HLA employees who attack students?

[aftenthurston]

where's your hard proof that staff members "attack" students? there is none... it's just your word against others.

[SHH Anon Classics]

The attack in question was a staff member grabbing a students shirt after the student insulted the staff member. He did not hit the student.

[aftenthurston]

that's what i'm pointing out too... it's not attacking students... such as was claimer about Jim Sir