Author Topic: Andrea Yates  (Read 31427 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2005, 10:58:00 PM »
did she ever explain why the fuck she did it?

/whats with moms killing kids?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2005, 12:02:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-12-24 19:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"did she ever explain why the fuck she did it?



/whats with moms killing kids?"


Have you ever taken care of 5 kids with
a husband that just wants to have more
babies without helping out?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2005, 01:52:00 AM »
Have you heard of divorce?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2005, 07:46:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-12-24 22:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Have you heard of divorce?



"


She is Schizophrenic, it makes things a whole
lot more complicated than walking away ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2005, 10:42:00 AM »
sounds like you knew her. or at least enjoy making excuses for this murderer
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2005, 12:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-25 07:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"sounds like you knew her. or at least enjoy making excuses for this murderer"


Do you know what Schizophrenia is?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2005, 03:03:00 PM »
I'm usually one of the people calling for these mothers' heads, but this case actually IS about mental illness.  Go read up on her, she really is crazy and her husband pretty much put her there.  Selfish asshole, even after Andrea and her therapists told him it would be dangerous for her to continue having children at the rate she was, he pressed her to have more.  The other poster is correct in that he provided no help either.  This woman has documented episodes of post-partum phsychosis (very different from pp depression).  She had been telling her therapists and her husband of visual and auditory hallucinations.  The husband put a halt to therapy when he didn't hear what he wanted.  This is one of the very few cases that I believe actually DOES deserve review.  The woman is and was clearly off her proverbial rocker.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2005, 03:15:00 PM »
Exactly.

When one has a mental illness, the patient,
and loved ones are supposed to learn the
triggers, as well as the therapy, or meds.,
that work the best and have compassion for
the illness and encourage the patient to
continue with their recovery.

In Adrea Yates case the husband, it could
be debated, did a criminal act by defying
common schizophric protocols and doing
the exact opposit. On face value this is
not illega. But, I think it should be
charged with cruel and unusual treatment
of his wife, a form a domestic violence.

His charge should eventually be pleaded out
to at least manslaughter.

---

I know that there are many on this site that
don't believe in mental illness, and think
a vitamin or a cult can cure the illness.

That may be ok for idle banter, but in this
case, get real. She was robbed of a chance
at a normal life by her husband ... who got
off completely.

---

I think that if everyone who contributes to
someone's demise should be heald accountable.

This kind of influence needs to be curtailed.

If culpability was the norm most of the quacks
and ridiculous opinions and desire to steer
people into dubious treatments would stop.

That ... would be a relief!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Andrea Yates
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2005, 04:13:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-25 12:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

I know that there are many on this site that
don't believe in mental illness, and think
a vitamin or a cult can cure the illness.

What if there was not a damned thing wrong with the woman except for how the people in her life treated her? (or little girl, who knows how far this goes back? What kind of family/church did she came up in?) Consider the possibility that the underlying issue wasn't a chemical imbalance that caused insanity? Do you believe that all mental illness is biological? Or do you believe, as I do, that people can be driven crazy?

She might have been just born that way, of course. How would anyone ever know? But I think there's ample evidence to support the idea that she was driven out of her mind.

Quote
That may be ok for idle banter, but in this
case, get real. She was robbed of a chance
at a normal life by her husband ... who got
off completely.


Yeah, they call that "borderline personality disorder" these days. In days past, we just called people like him "certified assholes".

Should it be illegal? I don't know, it would be extremely difficult to legally define the difference between a rocky spot in a relationship and minfucking abuse.

I had an unrepentant mindfucker of my own. When I finally figured out how that worked, I dumped him. He deserved that. The law forced me to associate with him and to give him access to the daughter he wouldn't or couldn't support. The general master threatened to charge me w/ legal neglect if I didn't, as it was money owed to her that I didn't want. I told my lawyer I just didn't want him to have any sense of entitlement. He just shrugged. So I said ok, then make it $50/month. He talked me up to $200 saying the judge wouldn't sign off on it otherwise.

So the civil courts did their thing and seemed to enjoy great interest and industry at doing it. Didn't make the sob any more responsible or any more interested in the wellbeing of his offspring. That went on till he finally fucked w/ us to the point where the criminal system kicked in.

I think we all would have fared far better without all that 'help' from the public sector, thanks!

I want the Old Deal back, damn it!

Emotions rule the world; Is it any wonder that it's so mucked up?!
http://fornits.com/rates.htm' target='_new'>Bill Warbis

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2005, 05:19:00 PM »
Ginger,

You bring up all good points.

I don't know if an overbearing husband
that fucks one relentlessly then takes
off for work and hanging with the engineers
can cause hallucinations and auditory commands.

The E channel, hmmm. I would have to watch it
again, but I think they presented it like she
had a long standing mental illness. I am sure
it will repeat when the trial starts in two weeks.

The show did point out that when she was medicated
she did well, I believe that implies a biological
disorder, or why then, did meds work.

Her life was controlled by her husband, according
to the show. Bringing her to and from the doctors.
Medication management, and of course demanding that she be a baby mill. BTW - it is not being
pregnant that was the problem. It was five kids
in a tiny trailer, and him banging away at her
saying God says we need to have as many kids
as God will allow us.

I believe after her onset of Schizophrenia to put her into that type of environmnet is like asking,
no forcing, someone with panic attacks to be an air traffic controller. There will be a crash.
It is well known that auditory commands are bad ...  So what did he expect, the moron.

Regarding your experience with family court. I am
sad to hear you went through that and I agree with you 100% that the law, or the judges interpretation, is a guarantee for failure when there is a bad, criminal, or insane person involved and they get rights as a normal person would.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2005, 08:22:00 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

Andrea Yates
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search

Andrea Pia Yates (born July 2, 1964) is a woman from Houston, Texas, USA, who is currently serving a life sentence for methodically drowning her five children (ages six months to seven years) in a bathtub on June 20, 2001. She was suffering from a severe case of postpartum depression, recurring, after having had her last baby. She immediately called 9-1-1 after the murders and was arrested shortly thereafter.

Yates confessed the crime, but her defense used postpartum psychosis as a motion to get her into a psychiatric facility. Although all expert testimony agreed that Yates was clearly psychotic, Texas law requires that in order to successfully assert the insanity defense, the defendant must prove that he or she could not discern right from wrong at the time of the crime. In March 2002, a jury rejected the insanity defense and found Yates guilty but spared her the death penalty. The trial court sentenced Yates to life imprisonment with eligibility for parole in 40 years.

On January 6, 2005, the Texas Court of Appeals reversed the convictions because prosecution witness Dr. Park Dietz, a Califonia psychiatrist, made a mistake in his testimony. Dietz stated that shortly before the killings, an episode of Law & Order had aired featuring a woman who drowned her children being acquitted of murder by reason of insanity. It was later discovered that no such episode existed; the appellate court held that the jury may have been influenced by his false testimony and that thus a new trial would be necessary.

Some believe or believed that her husband, Russell "Rusty" Yates, an employee of the Johnson Space Center, was responsible for creating the conditions that culminated in the tragedy. Andrea's psychiatrist, Dr. Eileen Starbranch, testified that she urged the couple not to get pregnant again to avert certain future psychotic depression, but the procreative plan taught by the Yates' preacher, Michael Peter Woroniecki, a doctrine to which Rusty Yates subscribed, insisted she should continue to have "as many children as nature allows".

Andrea Yates told her jail psychiatrist, "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell." [1]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2005, 08:26:00 PM »
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0322-02.htm

Published on Friday, March 22, 2002 in the Las Vegas Review-Journal

Rusty Yates is Culpable, Too

Father's Bizarre, Domineering Actions Played a Role in Children's Deaths

by Barbara Robinson
 
Who is responsible for the death of Noah, John, Paul, Luke and Mary Yates? A jury unanimously voted Andrea Pia Kennedy Yates, a registered nurse, guilty of killing her children. Interviewed after the verdict, some of the jury members have said her husband should have been on trial instead of Andrea.

OK, so the demeanor of Russell (Rusty) Yates -- all-American, Eagle Scout -- didn't persuade me. I couldn't understand how a man could repeatedly impregnate a mentally ill wife and force or allow her to home-school their children. Yates exhibited a sense of arrogance as he explained why his children had to be home-schooled: "The social integration that the world claims is so essential is exactly what we need to protect our children from." So the Yates didn't integrate with their neighbors, who didn't agree with Rusty's beliefs.

Rusty Yates claims he and Andrea jointly made decisions -- including Andrea giving birth to all five children without pain control measures; Andrea abandoning her nursing career to become a homemaker; Andrea home-schooling the children; the family moving from their four-bedroom house into a 38-foot trailer and an adjacent 350-square-foot motor home.

On June 26, just six days after the Yates children's deaths, Harris County, Texas, Judge Belinda Hill imposed a gag order prohibiting Rusty and any persons who had given statements to the police and to the district attorney from discussing how Andrea got to this point. This prevented Rusty, his family and Andrea's family from speaking to the press until the trial was over.

Since the day after the trial ended, Rusty and the families have appeared on every major television network to recite their version of what happened. In his need to share the blame for the deaths of his children, Rusty asked why anyone would blame him for Andrea's condition when a doctor trained to deal with mental illness wasn't able to predict her actions.

Rusty has repeatedly shared his disgust with the medical system's handling of Andrea's case. He has asked how she could have been so ill while the medical community failed to diagnose her, treat her and protect the rest of the family from her. He plans to sue Andrea's last psychiatrist, Dr. Mohammad Saeed, who took Andrea off her medication three weeks before she killed her five children.

Andrea's family, the Kennedys, claims Rusty was not attentive enough to Andrea's mental health needs. The Kennedy family has a history of mental illness that affects several members. Time magazine has reported that Andrea's brother and sister both suffer from depression, another brother has bipolar disorder, and the father who died after years of Alzheimer's may have had depression. This family demonstrates the genetic nature of mental illness.

The jury, the prosecution and the defense agree that Andrea is severely mentally ill. Time magazine reported that she envisioned a state-sanctioned exorcism in which George W. Bush, the former governor and now president, would come to save her from the clutches of Satan. While under the influence of psychosis, a person may know right from wrong as concepts, but be utterly incapable of controlling his or her impulses or differentiating reality from delusions so vivid they are impossible to ignore.

By any reasonable standard, that makes her incompetent to stand trial. Texas criminal law on insanity as a defense is illogical and archaic and an embarrassment to a progressive society.

Our country's attitudes toward mental illness lag far behind those of other civilized countries. We execute the mentally ill, we allow mentally ill people to roam our streets without medicine, treatment or shelter. This is inhumane. We stigmatize mental illness, devoting the better part of our resources to treat physical illness and disease.

Years ago, patients joked about the 45-minute hour they spent with their psychiatrist. Today they talk about the 10-minute visit and all the medicines they are prescribed. We have fewer mental health support systems available at a time when our society faces ever greater stresses and vulnerability to mental illness is increasing.

And while Andrea and Rusty Yates have gotten a lot of publicity, remember this: At least once every three days in America, a mother kills one or more of her children.

Barbara Robinson ([email protected]) is a retired attorney living in Las Vegas. Her column appears every other Friday.

Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Andrea Yates
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2005, 08:27:00 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Andrea Yates
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2005, 09:42:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-25 14:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ginger,



You bring up all good points.

Thanks
Quote

I don't know if an overbearing husband

that fucks one relentlessly then takes

off for work and hanging with the engineers

can cause hallucinations and auditory commands.

...

and of course demanding that she be a baby mill. BTW - it is not being

pregnant that was the problem. It was five kids

in a tiny trailer, and him banging away at her

saying God says we need to have as many kids

as God will allow us.



Well, the one thing we do know about all of these national interest stories is that all the information we get has already been politicized for our distraction. I don't know how extreme the situation in that little trailer really was. But yeah, I can easily imagine it being that bad. Take the Program and throw in children and daily rape sessions. For years and years... life sentence. Yeah, I'd say that could do it. But that would be the extreme scenereo that occures to me given the bare framework. Was it that bad? Who will ever know?

Quote

The E channel, hmmm.

Yeah, well, E Channel isn't exactly noted for journalistic integrity. It's a celebrity gossip channel. Sick, huh, that this story falls under that category in our society?

Quote

The show did point out that when she was medicated

she did well, I believe that implies a biological

disorder, or why then, did meds work.

Her life was controlled by her husband, according

to the show. Bringing her to and from the doctors.

Medication management,

Same reason crack and meth and heroin work so damned well for another class of distressed people. Sure, they'll kill ya, especially if used to excess. But you'll feel finer than the freshest spring day all the way there, so long as your supply isn't interrupted. Actually, except for the religious fundamentalism, Yates fits that profile to a T. If the sob were drunk on Wild Rose instead of God, that would do it.

Quote

I believe after her onset of Schizophrenia to put her into that type of environmnet is like asking,

no forcing, someone with panic attacks to be an air traffic controller.

Or before. How was she raised so that she thought she had to take that shit from some asshole? Why did she marry him, of all people?

I think it's a given that the problem started before she hooked up with the guy. But that still doesn't prove chemical deficiency.

Quote

Regarding your experience with family court. I am

sad to hear you went through that and I agree with you 100% that the law, or the judges interpretation, is a guarantee for failure when there is a bad, criminal, or insane person involved and they get rights as a normal person would."


Thanks. Well, that's why I think it's a bad idea to try and legislate good relationships. If things go sour, tear the blanket and move on. Best move I ever tried to make. LOL

 

The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Andrea Yates
« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2005, 10:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-25 17:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Peter_Woroniecki"


Ok, then! So maybe delusional, megalomaniac insanity is transmittalbe. Either that or they're drawn to each other. Doesn't sound like this lady had enough autonomy to choose a guru, though. Back to the SOB.

Here's a theory. The Yates case is, of course, extremely extreme. But doesn't the Mormon faith tend to be rather fundamentalist and radical? And do you think the excessive use of SSRIs in Utah might be more than coincidence?

No really, do you think so? If not, why not? Know of any more compelling explanation? Anybody?

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes