Stone Mountain School

[Troll Control]

I'm going to be a pain in the butt so please forgive me but....

I agree with you though that 6 months of employemnt is an alarmingly high turnover & if dossier is typical of programme staff then it is distrubing that they employ underpaid and underqualified kids.

Nationwide teacher turnover rate is 50% in the first 5 years, 10% each year. Does that mean we should stop having teachers due to high turn over rate? I can tell you part of the reason on a high turn over is being overworked and underpaid.

So...let me do the math for you.  These "counselors" are TWELVE TIMES more likely to leave than a teacher.  That's BAD.

Also, your analogy is completely faulty because continuity of teachers in a kid's life is wholly less important than continuity of caregivers.

This argument is a non-starter.

This place sounds like more of the same: uneducated, unlicensed staff working with kids who really need a good therapist and special education.  There are "levels" and "consequences."  This is just more of the same ol' same ol'...

[Anonymous]

So...let me do the math for you. These "counselors" are TWELVE TIMES more likely to leave than a teacher. That's BAD.

Thank you for doing the math for a math teacher  

I know little about these programs but I can tell you one thing, it is very very difficult to find a good therapist let alone a good special education teacher. I have worked with special educaiton teachers who are "qualified" that I would never leave alone with students and I have meet people "unqualified" who would make awesome behavioral special education teachers. Education is important, but it cannot replace a God given talent.

[Oz girl]

qualification can be combined with "god given talent" though. How can it not be a red flag that a facility which deals with troubled children will hire young people who may well be dedicated & genuinely passionate about what they are trying to do but who have no qualifications in the area, are not well paid (according to the young staffer who posted) and who understandably become burnt out after six months.
How does this not sound like a recepie for potential trouble?
Also given what parents are paying, why would a school committed to putting the kids first not feel an ethical obligation to provide immediate care staff who had some credentials in the area as well as just passion.

[Anonymous]

qualification can be combined with "god given talent" though. How can it not be a red flag that a facility which deals with troubled children will hire young people who may well be dedicated & genuinely passionate about what they are trying to do but who have no qualifications in the area, are not well paid (according to the young staffer who posted) and who understandably become burnt out after six months.
How does this not sound like a recepie for potential trouble?
Also given what parents are paying, why would a school committed to putting the kids first not feel an ethical obligation to provide immediate care staff who had some credentials in the area as well as just passion.

Please don't think I am arguing with you.

The person I am thinking of who is not qualified but is awesome with "at-risk" students is not qualified because getting qualification is not as easy as one might think. Many places require an EMT or WFR which takes time and money to obtain, something most young adults don't have a lot of. To become a Special-Ed B(behavioral) requires additional one to two years of schooling on top of the 5 years it already takes to become a teacher - which once again is time and money.  As for underpaid, anyone who works with kids, particularly  "at-risk" kids is always underpaid - it's the industry and nothing more. And if you spent a lot of time with "at-risk" kids like these people do day in and day out you would realize why the turn over rate is so high. They wear you out physically and emotionally and it's hard to be on top of your game 24-7 to keep up with whatever surprise might come up.

I realize there are red flags, but I also realize nothing is prefect either. I am not saying one way or another if I would send my child there, if I had one. But realize there may be a logically reason to why AEG hires who they do, instead of just picking random people to fill up the spots.  (and no I don't work for them, promise!)

[Oz girl]

Sure fair point. & i recognise it is not easy to get a specialist qualification and that work in the human services is often not as well paid as in other professions. However, i dont think anywhere worth it's salt would make the majority of it's ground level staff minimum wage kids who are naturally going to become burnt out, particularly with such minimal training. These kids should be working in summer camps & programmes should be hiring fully trained experts.

One thing that dossier mentioned that was a big red flag for me was that in the case of stone mountain they encourage parents to pop in & see their kids but few parents do. This suggests to me that for all of the tough talk about it being a difficult decision a lot of parents are in fact warehousing their kids at this place & others.

[Anonymous]

Just an FYI here, when someone calls something a red flag it means that it's a show-stopper. Soccer refs don't give red cards to players they want still in the game, racetrack authorities don't fly the red flag when they want the racers to keep racing, and even very slightly sane human beings do not leave kids in programs once the red flags start becoming visible.

[Anonymous]

I am glad I could provide some entertainment for some of you. Here are a few thoughts?.

So instead of filling the needs of troubled children with qualified staff who are trained in their fields you suggest that this positions be filled with people who have no formal training in these matters?

Not exactly, in an ideal world the people hired should be fully qualified. Unfortunately this isn?t an ideal world, so the best candidate available will have to do. I believe that is the same approach taken in public education as well and you all have pretty much stated you don?t want to get rid of public schools. Not all teachers in public schools are qualified ? though I agree they should be.

The explanation for this being I have no formal training in the vateriety of special needs that exist in the student population. How in the world does a person who depends on showmanship know how to approach a class that has autistic children, dyslexix (I think??) children, bipolar kids, add ad hd kids, and just about every other sort of disposition that strikes a pshrinks fancy? The point being that each of these situations demands a different approach and understanding to the situation.

I?m a fully licensed middle school math teacher and have taught in classrooms where over 75% of the students have some ?special needs?. The only ?training? I got to deal with these kids in my 5 years of college education ? ask the special education teacher. Seriously, that?s all they taught us in our diversity class and I went to one of the best education schools in the nation! The only people I know who have any formal training to deal with these ?special needs? are doctoral psychologist and special education teachers both of which are pretty much busy filling out paperwork thanks to No Child Left Behind.  I agree more training needs to be available but until the nation as a whole has a different outlook on these kids that isn?t going to happen.

I believe what you wrote about your experiences and I am not going to make excuses for them, but case studies usually include a lot more information than just a one person perspective. If they included more of the child?s medical/mental background, parent report, etc they would be a lot more valid arguments.

They hire WFR and WEMT because they are cheaper than nurses and other competent medical staff. They hire these people because the amount of time it takes to get a WFR is 2 weeks and roughly 800 dollars. Most kids get the training through the company.

FYI ? that more than what is required in some states (California for example) to become a licensed teacher!

Don't make the mistake of attributing any humanitarian principles to AEG because in the end it is all about making a profit. Nothing more nothing less.

Welcome to corporate America ? this is how our country works. Last time I check the long standing belief is if you have a problem with it you can always move to a socialist country like Sweden.
 

[Troll Control]

Welcome to corporate America ? this is how our country works. Last time I check the long standing belief is if you have a problem with it you can always move to a socialist country like Sweden.

This is an idiotic statement.  "If you don't love it, leave it," or "My country right or wrong" are the same lame-duck argument as yours.  

This is America, where if the people aren't happy with it they can voice their opinion and exercise their rights at the voting booth.  Good citizens do something about it when we as a country fail to live up to our promise.  Loyalists not patriots say things like "If you don't love it, leave it," or "My country right or wrong."

The rest of your post is even weaker than that trash.  You really do know nothing about the subject matter.  It's probably a good thing that you're a math teacher because your reasoning skills are pretty poor.

[Anonymous]

If you are right that the best candidate who applied is not hired, then I totally agree with you that in the least AEG?s hiring practices should be investigated (a simple phone call to the EEOC would make this happen quickly). I can honestly say I have no clue anything about their hiring practices and therefore cannot pass any judgment.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to corporate America ? this is how our country works. Last time I check the long standing belief is if you have a problem with it you can always move to a socialist country like Sweden.

This is America, where if the people aren't happy with it they can voice their opinion and exercise their rights at the voting booth. .

You're kidding, right?  Free market fundamentalism inevitably hinders democracy... haven't you read the news as of late?  the dispraportianate influence of corporate interest on domestic and foreign policy coupled with our irrational fears of socialist policy as  a nation does not equal 'good citizens taking a stand -----> real respect for the eco./social rights of adults, much less youth!  give me a break.

voting booth? lol- wow, denial??  wtf?  did you read about Florida? Ohio?

[Anonymous]

oh, and such things as waving the inhertiance tax, something to that effect... we're not a substantially democratic nation,  we're a capitalist nation with a formal democracy.

People can speak all they want, but so long as people think the status quo is in their best interest, or the best we're ever going to get because 'we' haven't seen better

taxing the poor, tax breaks for the rich, so-called trickle down.. philanthropy is the best we got absent effective social policy, resdist. of wealth by the govt. So, obviously we have a structural conflict of interest that MAY hinder or MAY improve conditions for those not in positions of power.  Personally, that roll of the dice does not a democracy make.

Not sure how this whole freedom concept go twisted into freedom for certain people, the wealthy or those in the position of power (w resources)  last time I checked democracy was a lil' bit more all encompassing than that and not exclusionary.

[grapeape]

I found a most interesting book called Rumspringa.  Rumspringa is little-known rite of passage among the Amish community.  Now you would think the Amish being religious and all would be more strict than the average community.  This particular right of passage not only allows but requires that when a kid turns 16 they "run around", i.e., they have no restrictions on drug and alcohol use, sex, using modern conveniences, partying etc.  The purpose is for them to exercise have the experience to make a choice whether or not to commit to the community or be in the world.  Interesting that this highly religious group acknowledges a person's inante intelligence and that being forced into compliance is not a "choice"; that "commitments" made in an absence of choice are meaningless.  Different perspective, huh.  The require kids to do exactly what thousands of others are getting locked up for.  Reminds me of a family in town who allowed their girls to do exactly what they wanted; no restrictions on anything.  Result: all the taboos lost appeal and focus.  Today grown up they are great young women who have made much better choices then their peers whose parents were overinvolved in their kids "choices".

[Anonymous]

I was sent to this place in 1997 got kicked out in 1998 on purpose this place is no picnic. It scares me to know it still is operating not going to go into to much details since I am 28 now and don't want to get sued for make statements against this place only decent person that worked there when I was there was a guy named Joel Davis he quit and I got kicked out shortly after that. If any parents or any staffers want to know my name and my account of this place email me at [email protected] with stone mountain as the subject

[Anonymous]

I was sent to this place in 1997 got kicked out in 1998 on purpose this place is no picnic. It scares me to know it still is operating not going to go into to much details since I am 28 now and don't want to get sued for make statements against this place only decent person that worked there when I was there was a guy named Joel Davis he quit and I got kicked out shortly after that. If any parents or any staffers want to know my name and my account of this place email me at [email protected] with stone mountain as the subject

You cant get sued for anything you write thats true.
If yor are very afraid of being sued you can use a proxy. Just tell the truth. 28 is too old to still be scared

[jsambo1]

We sent our son to Stone mtn. school in the last six years.  The school had a good reputation but had just been purchased by Aspen.  I agree it is wrong to nit-pick these places after we have made the decision to let someone else do what we have had such difficulty accomplishing.  We were exhausted and at the end of our rope and needed help but I don't think the camp (not a school) is qualified to deal with the troubled youngsters sent to this place.  A lot of complicated youths are delt with by untrained personnel, with a one-size-fits-all formula.  There was not a single certified psychologist on the campus and so all psychological services were outsourced to psychologist and psychiatrist in Asheville.  The reports of the youths behaviors were related by untrained counselors and their treatment plans were carried out by the young counselors on duty in the individual cabins.  
The camp has a progressive level system that all are supposed to work on and succeed at or suffer numerous penalties.  My son was able to progress up the level system to a certain point but then would make a mistake and have to start at the beginning.  THe punishment system ran from having to eat your  supper outside in any weater, to hours and hours sitting in an open field.  The final payoff of the levels system was a rewards cabin for those who have been totally indoctrinated and accept the programs goals.  THis was also the only way out of the school so those who could not concentrate for long enough on the levels (remember these kids mostly had ADD) had to come up with some way on their own to get out.
Enough whining from me on this experience.  Most of the counselors were very nice and energetic just young, inexperienced poorly managed and receiving very little training.  No one mishandled my child physically and the level system and rewards/punishment were presented to the parents before admission.  My child had a year to read a lot of books, learn to get along with fourteen others in a cabin heated by wood they had to cut themselves.  
If the camps goals were simply to provide breathing space for the families and outdoor living experiences they would have gotten a good grade but as a place providing psychological support for troubled youths then they are not worth the $5000 a month the place charges.
jsam