Author Topic: psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?  (Read 2844 times)

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Offline try another castle

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2005, 03:20:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-13 23:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"haha, no i'm pretty sure it was the dreams. still hilarious though. "


Genesis in any propheet is hysterical.

Well.... Genesis on their own is hysterical. Unless it's Peter Gabriel Genesis.

I don't even remember hearing Genesis at the school, let alone a propheet.

Ha ha, the dreams. Coming out of that, I was like "Well, what the fuck was THAT all about?"


Su-su-sudio.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2005, 09:58:00 AM »
Cedu's take on primal scream was, as people have stated here, running your anger/shit- screaming your head off in front off a bunch of other people in a room. I would say that at least 50-75% people were faking it just to get through the rap session without getting busted for something. There were also times at cedu where they just had you screaming, not verbalizing anything, really, just "screaming" your anger out. Both of these were usually directed at the floor, until upper school, where they had a technique called co-counseling....where you would basically "run your anger" at another person, a stand in for the person that you blasting.
These of course were not primal screaming, but I've said before that cedu was a mishmash of psychological therapies, none utilized properly or with adequate supervision.
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Offline Anonymous

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2005, 09:59:00 AM »
Cedu's take on primal scream was, as people have stated here, running your anger/shit- screaming your head off in front off a bunch of other people in a room. I would say that at least 50-75% people were faking it just to get through the rap session without getting busted for something. There were also times at cedu where they just had you screaming, not verbalizing anything, really, just "screaming" your anger out. Both of these were usually directed at the floor, until upper school, where they had a technique called co-counseling....where you would basically "run your anger" at another person, a stand in for the person that you blasting.
These of course were not "classic" primal screaming, but I've said before that cedu was a mishmash of psychological therapies, none utilized properly or with adequate supervision.
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Offline try another castle

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2005, 05:53:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-14 06:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Cedu's take on primal scream was, as people have stated here, running your anger/shit- screaming your head off in front off a bunch of other people in a room. I would say that at least 50-75% people were faking it just to get through the rap session without getting busted for something. There were also times at cedu where they just had you screaming, not verbalizing anything, really, just "screaming" your anger out. Both of these were usually directed at the floor, until upper school, where they had a technique called co-counseling....where you would basically "run your anger" at another person, a stand in for the person that you blasting.

These of course were not "classic" primal screaming, but I've said before that cedu was a mishmash of psychological therapies, none utilized properly or with adequate supervision."


Right, sometimes, running your anger at RMA didn't have to involve any word besides "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccck!!!" yelled at the floor, followed by a pillar of snot. And I think trust counseling was started after you went through your I&Me. One of my classmates and I used to joke about how ragged and worn out we would be after our trust counseling sessions because we would just scream our heads off.

But you said that this was not "classic" primal screaming. So what is the difference between the two "therapies?"
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Offline Anonymous

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2005, 02:35:00 PM »
There is plenty on the web about PT. As usual, sounds like the program bastardized the process and uses the kids as gunea pigs.

http://www.primaltherapy.com/CORES/warningCore.htm
Primal Therapy is not Primal ?Scream? Therapy. Primal Therapy is not just making people scream; it was never ?screaming? therapy. The Primal Scream was the name of the 1st book by Dr. Janov about Primal Therapy.

Those who read the book knew that a scream is what some people do when they hurt. Others simply sob or cry. It was the hurt we were after, not MECHANICAL EXERCISES such as POUNDING WALLS AND YELLING, ?Mama?. This therapy has changed what was essentially an art form into a science.

This therapy is DANGEROUS IN UNTRAINED HANDS. There are hundreds of people practicing what they call ?primal therapy? without a single day?s training and others who claim to have been trained by us who were either not here or who were nowhere near completion of either their own therapy or the training at Dr. Janov's Primal Center.

Once people have been opened up to their pain, they are VULNERABLE TO MANIPULATION. A therapist who needs to control will control his patients and control the course of their therapy, never realizing that his patient needs to lose control into his/her feelings, leading to places the therapist cannot imagine because he won?t let himself lose control. A therapist who acts totally out of control and has an ?anything goes? attitude towards therapy will miss the fragile patient who needs structure and so drive someone to MADNESS OR SUICIDE. The possibilities for abuse ARE LIMITLESS.

It takes years to train therapists in Primal theory and teach them to do proper Primal Therapy, honed by Dr. Janov and his staff with 30 years of experience into a scientific tool, instead of an art form. We have rarely seen the therapy practiced correctly by others outside of the Center and spend a great deal of time treating patients from these other so-called ?primal? clinics. We have seen the damage that can result when therapy is done incorrectly. If you are thinking of having therapy with someone, we will verify any claims they make regarding training with us and address any concerns you may have.

DR. ARTHUR JANOV IS ONLY ASSOCIATED WITH DR. JANOV'S PRIMAL CENTER IN VENICE, CALIFORNIA.

http://www.primaltherapy.com/SEO/primal ... view.shtml
What is PT?
The goal is to process repressed feelings which put pressure on vital organs and create disruptions which can eventually lead to illness.

***My opinion, based on experience, is that there is no therapeutic value when the process is forced and emotion is staged or contrived. You can not force a person to tap into those very painful memories from their past. By forcing teens to 'ACT' as if they are having a cathartic experience, they are actually adding more hurtful memories that will have to be dealt with, or repressed, in the future. "Screaming on demand" does not alleviate one's anger.
Very, very sick.

Scroll down and read the section on Neurosis.
http://www.primaltherapy.com/SEO/primal ... view.shtml
It should provide the understanding for why Institutionalizing kids at any age can create neurosis because, as we know, the real needs of children are not met in institutions. Further, more hurt is piled on the existing hurt. The grief of not having one's needs met is repressed potentially causing numerouse physical/mental problems.

Excerpt:
Each time a child is not held when he needs to be, each time he is shushed, ridiculed, ignored, or pushed beyond his limits, more weight will be added to his pool of hurts. This pool I call the Primal Pool. Each addition to his pool makes the child more unreal and neurotic.

??How can a teen 'work on' the grief of not having their needs met when they are in an environment that is not meeting their needs?? Answer: It's impossible.

And this one is powerfully right on:
As the assaults on the real system mount, they begin to crush the real person. One day an event will take place which, though not necessarily traumatic in itself--giving the child to a baby sitter for the hundredth time - will shift the balance between real and unreal and render the child neurotic. That event I call the major Primal Scene. It is a time in the young child's life when all the past humiliations, negations, and deprivations accumulate into an inchoate realization: "There is no hope of being loved for what I am." It is then that the child defends himself against that catastrophic realization by becoming split from his feelings, and slips quietly into neurosis. The realization is not a conscious one. Rather, the child BEGINS ACTING around his parents, and then elsewhere, IN THE MANNER EXPECTED by them. He says their words and does their thing. He acts unreal--i.e., not in accord with the reality of his own needs and desires. In a short time the neurotic behavior becomes automatic.

And this one describing 'struggling teens'. Ironically, society sees this type of child as healthy/successful/achiever, and those who rebel as the 'strugglers'. Could be summed up that all kids are 'struggling' because their needs are not and have not been met. Some attempt to conform, others rebel.

Struggle is what keeps a child from feeling his hopelessness. It lies in overwork, in slaving for high grades, in being the performer. Struggle is the neurotic's hope of being loved. Instead of being himself, he struggles to become another version of 'himself. Sooner or later the child comes to believe that this version is the real him. The "act" is no longer voluntary and conscious; it is automatic and unconscious. It is neurotic.

From Prospective Patients re: Minors and PT:
For those applicants who are minors, parental consent is required. We have found that young people do very well in Primal Therapy so long as their home environment is suitable.
http://www.primaltherapy.com/SEO/center ... tml#minors

Every RTC/EGS/TBS/Wilderness Program should be required to spell-out the type of 'therapy' they employee and educate the parent on the particulars, then acquire parental consent. To subject children to experimental or bastardized 'therapy' should be criminal.
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Offline Anonymous

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2005, 03:59:00 AM »
Tears for Fears was inspired by Primal Screaming.

So I went and read up on PS a little bit. It turns out that Janov, the dr. who more or less discovered PS, was simply one day performing a normal counseling session with a client of his.

The client was discussing how he'd last night been to a stage show where the actor on stage was doing strange play-acting. The actor was walking around on stage in a pin cloth diaper and the actor had a pacifier in his mouth. He was then walking like a baby around the stage and whining the words, "Mommy. Daddy."

The patient of Janov's was very emotional about the whole affair of being in the audience last night. In fact, the actor had begun asking members of the audience to join him in asking out loud for mommy and daddy. Of course, this had brung Janov's patient to tears last night. Come to think of it Janov's patient was crying now.  

Janov asked his patient to kindly close his eyes and start repeating those words, "mommy. daddy." Well, the patient got into it and got emotional about it. Before you knew it, no kidding, the patient was on the floor curled up in a supine curl and he was letting out the most horrible, blood wrenching scream that Janov has ever heard in his life. The patient was shaking and Janov calls in his staff. They didn't know what to do.

A few minutes later when the medics arrived the patient had awoken. The patient had said he was feeling so much better and more open than he'd ever felt in years and that he could 'feel' again and he was somehow different ... end.

This was Janov's first experience with primal Scream. He went on to develop reserach about this phenomena. He discovered how fragile a patient is during the primal scream methods and that very careful nurturing and correct atmosphere are so incredibly essential to making sure the patient does not reap any negative benefits from the therapy.

This, Janov says; the therapy of Primal Scream, is directly subjecting the patient to a subconscious pool of complete hysteria. Physically this method of bringing up so much pain all at one time could easily kill a person or at least render them insane.

Having untrained therapists attempt to help other people in Primal Screaming is very dangerous b/c of what the patient is being subjected to. It would be better, says Janov in most of his books on the therapy, to rather have the patient never go through such excruciating pain without the benefit of trained professionals who know exactly what to do. The neuroseze that lay inside of us from childhood are better served to stay where they have been instead of causing us more neurosis, insanity, or even death in the present.
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Offline try another castle

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2005, 07:26:00 AM »
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This, Janov says; the therapy of Primal Scream, is directly subjecting the patient to a subconscious pool of complete hysteria. Physically this method of bringing up so much pain all at one time could easily kill a person or at least render them insane.


I seriously doubt it! Unless they burst a blood vessel or something. That sounds more like Janov's ego touting the "power" of his discovered therapy.

Even traditional primal scream, from this description, doesn't sound very useful. Sounds like typical self-indulgent regression therapy to me.
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Offline Bean2

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2005, 10:20:00 AM »
After leaving BCA I looked into this quite a bit (I'm a psych major so I've always been interested). I think it's lightly based on Gestalt therapy. It emphasizes group therapy and a "holistic" approach. But, you won't find many articles actually advocating screaming at the floor- it's mostly about talking thing out...
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Offline Anonymous

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psychiatric origins of "running your anger/shit"?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2005, 04:15:00 PM »
Regression therapies are based on the notion that hurtful/traumatic events from your past can negatively affect your functioning, to a lesser or greater degree, in the present.

The basic idea, is that you revisit those past traumas and if emotion surfaces you allow it? vs shutting the person down. Rather than soothing the person, you stay out of the way and allow the person to express it the way they feel it.  

As many of you can attest, it is not useful one iota if the regression is forced and the emotional expression is contrived. It is always damaging. Further, in fact, a true regression can not be forced, so the victim has no choice but to act.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can?t make him drink. In the case of programs, kids are made to drink, or at the very least, appear to be drinking to avoid punishment. There isn?t one intelligent or ethical therapist that would subject clients to that.

It seems to me that they are making an erroneous assumption that if they can get me to cry/rage I will feel better. That?s only true if I cry/rage when my body prompts me to.  Not on demand. Given the nature of the program ?treatment?, I may cry/rage about what I was being subjected to- which could actually be a good thing. Anyone recall ever doing this? Seems like it would've been a great tool for releasing pent-up frustration cause by the program.

Janov (Primal Scream) was Freudian trained. I don't recall it being associated with Gestalt, although I don't think it would be discouraged if it happened.
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