Missin' Cedu

[shanlea]

Maybe your Idaho experience was tamer than CEDU RS. I personally enjoyed the wilderness, the work assignments, the manual labor, and even the writing assignments. I still think the school was a waste of time and money, did nothing productive, and at least at CEDU RS, totally verbally, emotionally, and psychologically abusive. Academically fraudulent,and very damaging, especially to some people I know who have anxiety, bipolar, depression, ODD etc and needed very specific help.

So I disagree with the who gives a fuck? attitude. I had that same outlook when I first left but being older and a grad student of ed made me rethink CEDU a lot. I want kids getting real help.

Also, as far as all the sex and dope you scored--let me tell ya, that did not happen at CEDU during my tenure. That place was so tightly wired with bullies and snitches and so inculcated with the CEDU moral values, it rarely happened. And while I myself am not a smoker, I sure as hell wish the staff availed themselves to the mellowing effects of marijuana on a regular basis.

In any case, it is no wonder the first thing many kids did when they left--whether they graduated or split-- was get laid. In fact, there are more than a few students who fucked staff right after graduating. After all, some of us were already sitting on their laps, getting our asses pinched by them, and having them describe to us how our tight pants gave everyone boners.

All that suppression of normal sex drives, even flirting with our own peers for God's sake, is NOT a healthy thing.

I'll tell you one thing: CEDU is the LAST place I would send my kids to learn interpersonal relations.

[Anonymous]

I've been out for awhile, and actually, my attitude has changed in the exact opposite direction of yours, Shanlea. At first I thought that maybe I had cheated myself (not by not giving myself in to the program...hell no! I mean for not coming to terms with the fact that maybe I had been psychologically abused), but I drifted well away from that and am very content with my "I didn't give a fuck then, and I still don't give a fuck about it now" attitude.

I do agree that people were being abused in those schools. But what I'm saying is that it didn't have to be that way. I knew that whether I went along with the program or told them to go fuck themselves, I'd still be a freshmen in college eventually. The people who got abused mentally, well they set themselves up for it. They gave staff all the ammunition they needed. They got into the program, "ran their shit and came clean", etc, etc, and that was all the staff needed to get in their heads. Me? They couldn't read me, and I wouldn't let them, and believe me, that killed them. Sure, I did plenty of restrictions, and countless more programs because I wouldn't get real. I was held back from my Peer Group's Brothers, I Want to Live, and I & Me. It would've taken me 32 months to graduate the program if I hadn't just left after the I & Me. But I still wouldn't let them get inside my god damn head, and from what I've read around here, it was worth it!

As for the academics? Yeah, they were a joke. I struggled through quite a few of my early undergraduate classes. I had to teach myself all the pre-requisites to Calculus so I could take that and get a good grade. I had to break out the books and learn all the things about history and our government that CEDU neglected to teach just so I could pass Poli Sci. But in the end, the strong shall overcome, and I passed those classes with flying colors.

Half the kids who were at CEDU weren't going to bother going to college anyways. Some of them didn't have a prayer of going to a halfway decent school. So why would academics matter to them? And to those, like me, who did place a huge importance on a good education and going to a good university? Well, the academics were weak in general, but I can remember 3 teachers at BCA (Jeff Welp, Val Davis, and Jim Hooper for those who were there) that were excellent teachers. Val's English classes were better than English clases at most normal High Schools. Jim Hooper was a genius and knew about just about anything related to Science, and if you wanted to know it, he would teach it. And if that wasn't enough, which obviously it wasn't, John Kastelic, the librarian, was a brilliant man with a passion for teaching. I spent countless hours in the library, the only place other than my restrictions I was allowed to go most of the time, just learning about various things. Literature, humanities, languages, you name it. But most of the kids at BCA would rather just sit and bitch about how much the academics sucked than actually doing something about it.

Not to mention the fact that there's always a little something something called post graduate school.

So you say BCA was tamer? Well, I can't say whether that was true or not, but as for being tight wired with bullies and snitches? Of course we had that! I'd say 75% of the kids there would've snitched in a heartbeat. It happened to me plenty of times. I got snitched on for brewing alcohol, I got snitched on for smoking, and I got snitched on for having sex. The latter two represented my final two trips to Ascent. But for the few things I got caught doing, I got away with much more. Getting weed on campus was a rarity for most kids. But from my first day on campus I was busy figuring out all the angles. I wasn't one of the stupid kids that asked the pizza delivery guys for weed. I wasn't one of the stupid kids that went looking for it on town trips. Nor did I try to sneak it back from home visits. No, I gradually buttered up a staff member. Not a program staff; kitchen staff! We spent dorm time after dorm time (4-5 pm) down in that kitchen making friends with her. And after a few months, we had our hook up. It wasn't that difficult. But most kids just didn't have the patience to pull it off.

But I do agree with your take on the sexual relations and interpersonal relations. Yes, even during my time, it was very difficult to pull it off. It was the # 1 thing people got busted for. I don't think too many kids were getting laid there. In fact, a good percentage of them were virgins in the first place, and who wanted to lose their virginity at CEDU? You had to plan that shit out, make sure the right staff were working, have look outs that you had complete trust in, have a healthy stash of protection (god knows what some of those girls had), etc, etc. But like I said, I managed to pull it off (all but one time), and oh man did it make my stay easier.

But yeah, their oppression of normal teenage flirting was extremely unhealthy. The fact that they made so much as checking the opposite sex out such a taboo was just not normal. I understand that there were girls there who had serious problems with sexual relations, but for the rest of us, and even for them to a certain degree, not letting us explore our desires was just sick. I found myself having a lot of trouble in relationships after CEDU, and not until I found someone who had knowledge of my experiences in Idaho could I get over it.

CEDU is definitely the last place I would send my kids to learn interpersonal relations.

[Anonymous]

Oh, and god knows what some of those guys had, too. Didn't want that to seem sexist.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-11 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-11 13:10:00, swingaway wrote:


Cedu taught me how to manage my relationships and not to sleep around with whatever pussy came around.  "

And by the way, you're a dude?? You sound like a fucking chick. Definitely a typical CEDU look good sack of shit. "

haha you dissed someone for liking cedu while using the lingo. :rofl:

[shanlea]

I hear what you are saying, and we seem to agree on points.  However, I still believe that an abusive environment at a critical age of development is immoral/unethical.  I know some people who have PTSD 10 years later.  Others from CEDU and other TBSs talk to their partners/ friends/and family the way they were taught to "communicate" in a rap.  Believe me, this does not bode well for relationships.

Also, you seem to indicate you were mentally stronger than others, so it didn't invade your psyche on long term detrimental basis.  Very Darwinian. The point is that people who were not as savvy, or mentally strong deserved to be in an environment that edified their self esteem rather than demolish it.

More importantly, I just want parents to be more savvy about placing their kids in these environments.  I know for a fact that my Dad would never have sent me there if he was aware of the methodology employed by the school. (Or the lack of accreditation, efficacy, academic integrity etc.)  

I didn't come to this site until last year, and prior to that, I never discussed this experience with anyone.  But when I came to Fornits on a weird whim, everything I felt but never articulated was validated.  When I started to read some of the other sites, I was outraged.  Part of it was I came at a time when I was studying education in grad school, and part of it was the volunteer work I used to do for different youth groups. I want kids to be helped in a very real, edifying manner.

Last year, when I was teaching for the first time, I saw first hand that it really doesn't take a whole hell of a lot to reach many of what other teachers labled as lost causes. All it took was  genuine interest in the INDIVIDUAL, positive attention, a little creative thinking, and persistence.

I digressed again. But the point is, I argue here because I want kids to be helped in the best possible way--not at an emotional Palookaville.

[Anonymous]

Haha, ok, I see your point. And you do make an excellent point about trying to communicate with people like we did in raps. As much as I said fuck it to the program, I did have to sit through 3 of those a weeks. Of course, when the staff would blow their top and start screaming at me about getting real, half the time I'd just leave and go down to the farm and give myself a work assignment. But yea, not being allowed to confront people on anything until you could do it in there, it was a pretty big change having to kick that once I left. Definitely took me a little while. No one wants to be talked to like that.

One thing I find myself still doing is "opening up" when someone starts talking to me in classes where we debate and things like that. It's really frustrating. I automatically open my arms and rest the backs of my hands on my knees. God knows if I'll ever kick that.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-12 13:26:00, shanlea wrote:


In any case, it is no wonder the first thing many kids did when they left--whether they graduated or split-- was get laid. In fact, there are more than a few students who fucked staff right after graduating. After all, some of us were already sitting on their laps, getting our asses pinched by them, and having them describe to us how our tight pants gave everyone boners.

Fortunately, I was never a subject of any staff molestation or fondling, but that's because I was butt ugly as a teenager, but let me tell you, I was a virgin while I was at RMA, and I got laid shortly after I graduated. It was a total disaster. The sex was good. (For me, anyway. But I'm sure I was average to them.) But it was also my first queer encounter. I had all of this internalized homophobia (that the school added to), so I was a total freak and scared the crap out of this person. I was basically "the trick that wouldn't leave." Very needy. To make matters worse, I made it all like it was their fault, when I wouldn't leave them alone and kept calling them and wondered why they didn't want to hang with me anymore. I didn't have a fucking clue!

I can't blame that all on RMA, though. I was a social retard already, but adding the sexual confusion, plus infatuation, plus my first experience after all of that time not getting any, plus the introduction of all of this bizarre behavior that people in the real world don't do, especially this elitist attitude that norms just "don't get it".

The good thing is, I can totally laugh about all of this now. It really is quite funny. I would hope that if I met up with this person today, we could share a couple of yuks together about how ridiculous the whole situation was.

[shanlea]

You are killing me... You are one humorous and articulate guy.  

Anyway, the queer thing was strange too at CEDU. During my time, it was strictly "don't ask, don't tell."  I mean on one hand, we were unnaturally barred from the opposite sex, we danced and smooshed with same sex partners...some people copped out to homosexual experiences but it was treated almost as a disclosure but not an orientation.

I remember a few people coppng out to being gay or lesbian and it was as if they said nothing. Like an unofficial code of silence-- staff members just diverted the topic.  For once, the topic was not exploited or magnified but brushed under the carpet.  

A genuine therapist would work with this aspect of development and at least give the individual a safe place to be open about their orientation. This could not happen at CEDU. I always wondered if it was because they didn't want to rock the boats of the parents who footed the bill. (You know: "Fork over the 56K.  By the way, your child is gay.")

Who knows? I wondered if this changed after I went to CEDU.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-12 19:08:00, shanlea wrote:

"You are killing me... You are one humorous and articulate guy.  



Anyway, the queer thing was strange too at CEDU. During my time, it was strictly "don't ask, don't tell."  I mean on one hand, we were unnaturally barred from the opposite sex, we danced and smooshed with same sex partners...some people copped out to homosexual experiences but it was treated almost as a disclosure but not an orientation.



I remember a few people coppng out to being gay or lesbian and it was as if they said nothing. Like an unofficial code of silence-- staff members just diverted the topic.  For once, the topic was not exploited or magnified but brushed under the carpet.  



A genuine therapist would work with this aspect of development and at least give the individual a safe place to be open about their orientation. This could not happen at CEDU. I always wondered if it was because they didn't want to rock the boats of the parents who footed the bill. (You know: "Fork over the 56K.  By the way, your child is gay.")



Who knows? I wondered if this changed after I went to CEDU."

I remember hearing that CEDU was a little more lenient about it than RMA was. Kids would whisper to each other, "Did you know at CEDU they actually HAVE gay students there?? They don't talk about it, but they are actually THERE???" At RMA, "nobody" was gay, period. I remember being SCREAMED at in raps by Caroline and Carmen telling me not to walk around naked in the dorms. (Like I did that already? Hello.. just thought I would flash my tackle folks, ain't it pretty?) and not to fuck with "their" kids. (Caroline's favorites.) As if I was a predatory, drooling fox invading the "hen house" or something. (Especially because I made some seedy remarks the first few days I was there. Oh man did that come back to haunt me.) It was downright absurd.

Anyway, I was "straight" within a week. The ex-gay ministries would be proud. Then the minute I got out of school, BAM, homo-fever bit me in the ass. It's like it was waiting for me all that time.

"Okay, we'll just treat RMA as a little detour in your sexuality escapades, but I'll be here when you graduate, miss thing. The minute pachabell's canon is over, *snap*, it's open season, honey."

Technically, though, I consider myself bi. Equal opportunity, you know.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I wish I were bi. Any chance girls are less of a pain in the ass than men?  Or is that wishful thinking?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-12 20:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Sometimes I wish I were bi. Any chance girls are less of a pain in the ass than men?  Or is that wishful thinking?"

It depends on what sex you are. Whatever sex is the opposite sex is the more difficult one to deal with, IMO. Hormones give each sex a different set of needs and behaviors and mindsets, and often, they contradict the needs of the other sex, which is why I think that god is a sadist. Either that or he's/she's queer.

But dating your own sex has it's own share of drama, too. Especially when you borrow the other's clothes without asking and don't give them back, thank you very much.  :flame:

[Anonymous]

Ya know, I think the drama of borrowing clothes is much more manageable than trying to understand your mate if he is male. It's impossible. But that's a whole 'nother forum. God, if I could switch teams, I would!

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-12 20:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ya know, I think the drama of borrowing clothes is much more manageable than trying to understand your mate if he is male. It's impossible. But that's a whole 'nother forum. God, if I could switch teams, I would!"

Well, I was being tongue in cheek.  :wink: In all seriousness, relationships are relationships, and they are always a pain in the ass.  No matter which team you bat for. (It's just that dykes are better at softball...  :razz: )

But that doesn't apply to me anyway. I'm a fag, so I fence.

[Anonymous]

Well I'm sure you guys aren't lying, but thats not how it was at all when I was at BCA. There were a whole handful of openly gay guys, even more openly lesbian girls, and then a bunch of bi girls to go on top of that. Maybe it was just because there was a large enough presence of them that they wouldn't let staff/other students ignore them anymore? I dunno, but they were pretty well respected and pretty confident with their sexuality. Sometimes kids would lash out and call them fags or whatever, but staff would absolutely drop the hammer. They wouldn't stand for it at all.

Of course, I was there in 2000-2002, so maybe things just changed over time.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-13 01:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Well I'm sure you guys aren't lying, but thats not how it was at all when I was at BCA. There were a whole handful of openly gay guys, even more openly lesbian girls, and then a bunch of bi girls to go on top of that. Maybe it was just because there was a large enough presence of them that they wouldn't let staff/other students ignore them anymore? I dunno, but they were pretty well respected and pretty confident with their sexuality. Sometimes kids would lash out and call them fags or whatever, but staff would absolutely drop the hammer. They wouldn't stand for it at all.



Of course, I was there in 2000-2002, so maybe things just changed over time. "

Yeah. That's a total 180 from RMA in the 80s. But then again, it was 2002. I would hope that by that time they would have gotten their shit together. A lot happened for gay rights in the 90s. In addition, Brown, Inc. may have had anti-discrimination policies regarding their students that just weren't in place when Wasserman was in charge.

I wonder what the reaction was of 80s RMA/CEDU alumni when they discovered as the 90s started to roll around that their IWTL slogan "silence = death" had been "taken" by ACT UP!? Must have been priceless.