still looking for..

[Antigen]

Yeah, that's always been my take. I mean, come on, you don't really believe that all those boys fucked their dogs, do you? Or that anybody did "THC" as a street drug? We all lied. It was all theatre. At the time, I thought everybody was pretty much on the same page about that.

Why should we take advice on sex from the Pope? If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-04 03:44:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:

"

On 2005-10-03 21:01:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Of course I didn't know her or anything, but whatever people said in group about things they lied about I always take with a grain of salt. Her father could have abused her or not...and she could have been lying about either part of it. I don't see how we could ever know for sure what really happened."

Agreed...Once one knows the truth, one has to ask if the truth is truely known."

What I'm saying is, she could have been lying when she said that she lied. See what I'm saying?? You just can't know.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-03 14:19:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:

"

On 2005-10-01 17:53:00, Anonymous wrote:


"any info on Leslie F...she and I were at Straight in 1979--1981...she got to Jr Staff, I think.


Tall, thin girl with brown hair...dated Miller's son for a while..


any clues?"

Leslie Fetrow? What a nightmare of a female!



I remember she put her parents, her father in particular thru absolute hell. She was first person I had known to make false claims to HRS about how her father allegedly abused her. She held on to her story for the longest time.



Then it finally came out in group that she was bullshitting. I rember thinking to myself, what a bitch! And yes, she turned out to be a royal bitch. She was well equipped to blast her fellow straightlings and was often staffs choice when someone was "stood up". God was she ruthless. I remember that she was making her way up thru the ranks of staff and I remember something about her dating someone in the high echelon of Straight. But didn't much care what the bitch did...and don't much care now"

How the fuck do you know what she said was a lie, and then what she said in group was true?

[Woof-a-Doof]

How the fuck do you know what she said was a lie, and then what she said in group was true? "

I don't.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-05 04:06:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:

"

How the fuck do you know what she said was a lie, and then what she said in group was true? "

I don't."

I never heard any female in group say anything that was believable.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-05 06:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-05 04:06:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:


"

How the fuck do you know what she said was a lie, and then what she said in group was true? "

I don't."

I never heard any female in group say anything that was believable."

I've rarely heard a female say anything out of group that was believable.  Lyin' bitches, all of them......

[85 Day Jerk]

Leslie Fetrow was like a hurricane.  All that pent up fury.  I believe she really was molested/abused by her dad because that chick had some genuine rage that cannot just come from thin air.  She actually threw a chair at me when we were both on First in the Milton Roy Building because I yawned while she was "coming down on me."  I think that if it were not for Vicki Moran, she would have never gotten off 2nd Phase.  The "wild horses" speech Vicki gave her was one of the few moments where us teens actually tried to help one another.  How could you guys forget the tattoos though?  She had a tat of I think a reefer leaf with her druggy boyfriends name and then a rather large one that said "ON DRUGS" on her left shoulder.  That must have been a real motherfucker to keep them covered up no matter what.  They were jail-house crude, and in those days the only chicks with tatoos worked in carnivals.  Up until about 5th phase, she had this way of relating and badgering people that reeked of deperation.  I don't think that she wanted to be there, but after Aimee Wrong left staff things got better for a whole lot of girls.  The one thing I hated about Leslie is how she was used as a poster child for the Bad Girl/Biker Slut image.  It made otherwise normal girls beef up their past so they could hate the guys side so much better and drive the stake of division so much deeper.  I am sure she is doing okay now.  I heard from a chick that lived in Tampa and worked at Busch Gardens that Leslie had joined the Air Force.  This was in the summer of 1982.

[Woof-a-Doof]

On 2005-10-04 05:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

" whatever she said in group is a moot point now..she was a child like the rest of us, and god knows what was going thru her head...I do know she left straight because she finally saw the absurdity of what they were trying to teach her. She was my foster sister when she got caught making out with newton's son and she was terrified, so she quit(she was 18)..just wondering if she made it out alive and well.

I was probably a bitch towards others also, but it was expected of me, and I didn't know any better...and I told a few lies..in order to make myself appear more " regretful of my druggie life" I don't care what she did in Straight, but I do think about her and hope she is okay.."

85DJ,as usual, puts it all in prespective. Indeed, she was like that of a hurricane, with ample fury to spare. 85DJ said, "she had this
way of relating and badgering people that reeked of deperation." No doubt! Being stood up was always, as I have said a tremendious fear of mine. Having Leslie Fetrow speak "at" ya was a horrid experience. She would blast and blast away, belittling and demeaning with every breath she took and every word she uttered.

The thought of her "coming down" on me, raced thru my head a minimum of a dozen times today. I recall her gaunt face (straights absence of sunlight had a most unflattering effect on her...all of us really) with her hollowed out eyes blistering into my soul. I was afraid, hell yeah, I was mortified of her. I rember once I was stood up for "checking out the girls", and she was one of them that blasted me. I think she called me just about every name possible. But even today, although those "words" escape me now, I still can see her face, spewing her verbal assault. Haunting...very haunting.

Giving this more thought (more than what it's probably worth) I thought perhaps my post regarding Leslie was inappropriate. In short, somewhere, I felt bad about doing so. After all, she apparently had made some "friends", at least the Anonymous poster that was her foster sister appeared to have befriended her. And I thought that the original poster genuinely cared for Leslie...possibly still does. Kinda like myself when first arriving on this forum. I was also inquiring about someone when I arrived, someone who I care for. And so...I felt bad.

Then the thought occurred to me, this girl, this "child", this raving/ranting psychotic bitch fucking terrrorized me.

Now I carried this fear, this "whatever the fuck it is" around with me for an awfull long time...hell, as I said I can still see her straining face with viens bursting in her neck and forhead as she lashed out at myself and many, many others.

Now I am just suppossed to roll over and make nice....Forget all the hostility endured by her......Fuck that!

I should say, in all fairness, that this was almost 30 years ago. The memories I have of her, are some 27 years old now. They are memories of her as that "child"....and I hate and dispise that "child". If I would meet her face to face I would honestly have an open mind. At some point today I thought, I hope she is doing fine 'now'. Surely people change as a quarter of a century has passed, do they not?

Another staff member recently made an appearance here and I told him that forgiving him would be realitively easy (as I don't even recall his name or even really who he is...and we were in at the same time). But for folks like Leslie...this will be a challenge. She made a distinct impact on me, one that I won't soon forget. As I said before in an analogy; I was like freshly poured concrete and while curing, she and others just had to fuck with it and now those marks are solidified. I wish it were different, but that 'wish' doesnt change the reality.

Because in my minds eye I have seen Leslie's screaming face more times today than I have in a quarter of a century, I have got to create that look in an image. It might not be a "great" image....but then again it's inspirations arn't exactly great either. Will have to see what unfolds....I digress

Leslie, I got issues with you about shit that happened along time ago, you terrorized me and a shit load of others. These issues are of past events and past personalities and past circumstances. You are not blind to what I am saying. Come to us and apologize. Say the words, I am sorry, I was wrong. I for one will be the first to listen to all you have to say...after those words. Because, if your alive... you are one of us.

It's amazing to me how the name of one person, after a quarter of a century has passed having not thought of that name, and that one name can consume the better part of my day. Also how emotions seem un-earthed in a vulger surge, like some spontanious projectile vomiting...cathartic for the soul.

BTW Anon....Why were you expected to be a "bitch"?

[Anonymous]

What is this obsession with forgiveness? Why do you gotta get old Leslie to say sorry? It's such a prostrated position, and you already said yourself she was probably abused pretty fucking bad before she even got to Straight to get abused much more systematically and cleverly.

I say the problem is your own. Not that you even have to get over it. It is complicated. Striaght trained us to abuse each other. Sure some had some prior training, some got real messed up by Straight and became viscious, etc. But Straight trained us to do the abuse for them.

I say, get used to contradictions in your own psyche over the whole thing. It's okay. Life and interacting with other humans is complex stuff.

But pleaso, don't abuse Leslie more if you meet her by expecting her to say sorry to YOU. It is either water under the bridge or it isn't.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-05 19:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What is this obsession with forgiveness? Why do you gotta get old Leslie to say sorry? It's such a prostrated position, and you already said yourself she was probably abused pretty fucking bad before she even got to Straight to get abused much more systematically and cleverly.



I say the problem is your own. Not that you even have to get over it. It is complicated. Striaght trained us to abuse each other. Sure some had some prior training, some got real messed up by Straight and became viscious, etc. But Straight trained us to do the abuse for them.



I say, get used to contradictions in your own psyche over the whole thing. It's okay. Life and interacting with other humans is complex stuff.



But pleaso, don't abuse Leslie more if you meet her by expecting her to say sorry to YOU. It is either water under the bridge or it isn't."

I agree with this post. Your feelings about her probably wouldn't, unfortunately, be resolved even if she did come and say she was sorry. That wouldn't take away what happened and all the things that you internalized and took in from the experience, which will have to be taken out and analyzed to truly get some sense of closure. This is all of our challenge...to take all the fucking screwed up shit out of our minds that was put in there, analyze it, and decide what we want to think instead. It's hard ass work though and absolutely fucking terrifying to do. Not to mention really hard to even be able to see what was put there by others and what is actually real. Because it feels so fucking real. So yeah it's really your problem and not hers, but it's not your fault either. It's just what we have to deal with. I think pretty much anyone who was in straight has those same fucked up memories, I know I do. It just wasn't Leslie F. It was some other kid.

[Anonymous]

for woofadoof--this is the original poster looking for leslie-I do care about her, but she did have an awful way of confrontation..she scared me also..but being her foster sister at the time of her "decline" made me see the vulnerable side. I have to say--I was most definately a bitch in my program..if ya remember, we were expected to give people a hard time as a way of proving how straight we had become..the angerier we got, the more it showed staff how we had "grown"...so, somewhere out there are people who will remember ME like you remeber Leslie. And that scares me also...because I can't remember alot of the actual discussions we had, there is no telling what I said, and I would assume Leslie has the same problem. She had a good heart, and to know that she terrified you would not sit well--she, like me, was obligated to degrade by default..we were just pawns in the game, man..I'm sorry I brought back some painful memories, but I think alot of us regret the things we did to others in order to "get straight" and get the fuck away...

[Woof-a-Doof]

Lemme see if I can put into words (as few as possible) my experience with this thread and the issues brought to surface as a result (which are ongoing) of this thread.

To the Anon who asked, "What is this obsession with forgiveness?". My first and lasting reply to this question is simply another question. What else is there left for me to do? I have experienced the anger, the sense of loss, the rage, the absense of my youth, the hatred, the sadness and all the other emotions that can be found on this forum. Not only have I experienced them once, but many many times over many, many years. And I have to ask myself...where have these emotions, these stances/positions on the issue  of Straight gotten me? The answer, I dunno. It seems to me that I spent alot of effort and devoted to rooting out the sense of seething hostility directed towards a now defunct institution that I, we endured. In the past 10 years or so, I have tired of this. As I have alluded to in previous posts, I am simply getting too old for this shit.

I agree, yes...the "problem" is my own. As you mentioned it is complicated, complex and riddled with contridictions. The internal dichotomy over Straight is palpable. My reaction to the "one name" is evidence of this. It occured at time where I thought I had "all my shit in one sock"...and I was proved wrong. Your final words were clearly obvious, "it is either water under the bridge or it isn't". Unfortunately the mearly obvious often elludes my attention. The water may or may not have passed under the bridge, the 'river' is always under the bridge...I forgot that. I shouldn't have really been surprized by the flash flood of emotionss/memories, but I was and I was caught off guard. It seems that this journey is one of a thousand surrenders at times. Consitantly being faced with memories/emotions/conditions/reactions all with thier roots stretching back over a quater century. The first responce was to fight,
to rage against the injustice of being held against my own free will...but again, I am tired of the fight with nothing to show for it. So it comes back to the question of forgiveness,for me.

To the Anon whose responce followed...You said someting to the effect of, 'feelings for her probably wouldn't, unfortunately be resolved even if she did come and say that she was sorry'. This remains to be seen. I hope my tendency to disagree with this statment is indeed true. I hope that someone coming forth and admitting the wrongs done could be recieved in kindness, by me. You were correct, it is an incredible challenge. In the past others have said, "I am sorry" and I truely believed thier sense of remorse as it was conyed. Thier further explainations gave clearer understanding into a world of the past, whose shadows linger on into present day. I think it an incredibly brave thing for those in a position to administer such terroristic care can come forth and say, "I was wrong and I am sorry". Should my efforts to forgive, hinge on thier apologies or lack thier of? I think not. Here is where my challenge intesifies.

To the original Anon who initiated this thread...Thanks for the provocative post! Although rather unpleasant that particular day,your post, has been a valuable lesson for me. I am not sure if I have my arms wrapped around all of it just yet,but I am working on it.

The concept of "the angier we got, the more it showed staff how we had grown", just blows me away. As I read that, I remember looking at the girls side seeing a pecking order of sorts and watching ya'll churn in anger and as the day progressed, the sence of hostility grew expotenatially (sp) as the upper phazers arrived. I have been mulling over this the past few days and I couldnt remember ever thinking as a guy that I was supposed to be a "dick",  as a way to show staff how "straight" I had become. Obviously there was a double standard. But then again, what kind of logic in human dynamics supports such a thing? How fucking ridiculious
is that? How could we come to a point were we could "degrade by default" to show that we were "doing good"? I am not implying that the guys weren't doing fucked up shit . There were those that had a predisposition to come "dicks", straight took this as some sign of leadership and actively encouraged the behavior. The name Doug Heminger comes to mind as a classic example, as does the name David Crock.

I believe you were expected to be a "bitch" and perhaps you played the part well, ya may have even been a "bitch" to me. However, I gather from what you have written that you have remorse. I respect you for that and peace will follow...

[Anonymous]

Welp, it's pritty fucking cheep and controlling forgiveness that requires someone who was an abused teenager to stand before you and say "I am sorry, even though I don't remember what you are talking about, or I did it in a haze of mind torture at Straight, or whatever. I weep on thy feet, Woof-Man, and then dry them with my hair."

[Woof-a-Doof]

On 2005-10-09 16:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Welp, it's pritty fucking cheep and controlling forgiveness that requires someone who was an abused teenager to stand before you and say "I am sorry, even though I don't remember what you are talking about, or I did it in a haze of mind torture at Straight, or whatever. I weep on thy feet, Woof-Man, and then dry them with my hair.""

I agree, no apology required...as was said, it is my "problem", not hers, not yours. Sarcasim appreciated as typical.

[Anonymous]

hmmn...