Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Dear Art,
GregFL:
BTW Walter, anyone who describes seedlings as "zombies" really is way off the mark.
I was a seedling. There was a time I bought into it hook line and stinker. Granted, it was a short period of time between trying to con my way home and trying to wait out graduation without getting started over.. but hey, I was there also and I was affected by all the hoopla. I believed all that seed army fantasy crap too my man.
Zombie no, but brainwashed yes. how could you not be? The effect of all those combined "techniques" was overwhelming, at least for me, at least for a while.
These techniques are proven to exact a change, at least in the short haul, for most people. There is also an extreme amount of collateral damage, especially for people who are young,overly involved, mentally ill, not addicts, emotionally weak, ego deprived, or any other number of things that can cause someone to negatively react to those extreme conditions.
One size, while working for some, NEVER fit all. That was one of the biggest lies told, that you could just throw your kid in there in the care of Art Y Co and automatically get a new improved version back..all for $250 bucks.
Bullschnit!
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 13:17:00, cleveland wrote:
"Ginger,
I can't imagine being a little kid and being around the Seed. I rarely hear you talk about the feelings of excitement, closeness, and 'we're changing the world!' but you must have felt some of that, too. I know I did as a cynical 19 yer old.
--- End quote ---
Well yeah, I did. But it backfired on me soooo bitterly that it sort of takes all the glow off of it. More than anything, I'm embarrased and regratful over the way I went around thinking I was better than all those "druggie" kids I went to school with.
--- Quote ---
So, I can't be all, 'The Seed Sucks' or 'I love the Seed' - I did love it, and it sucked. Make sense?
--- End quote ---
Perfect sense.
"Replace end user" (The Top Support Call Closer 10 Years Running)
--Bastard Administrator
--- End quote ---
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 13:28:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:
"Antigen, I really can't understand your question and you said ...
--- End quote ---
What question?
--- Quote ---
I'm being serious, with everything that was going on in your family do you really think you would have had just a regular old everyday childhood and Beave & Wally would have just been the big brothers you always wanted and Ward and June would have given you her pearls someday? I'm not being sarcastic.
--- End quote ---
I know, that's what's surprising. Don't you know that Leave it to Beaver was just a TV show? They had sexless procreation and no toilets. It wasn't real. No such people ever did existed. In the real world (i.e. my neighborhood, my school) plenty of kids had parents who either divorced or should have, brothers and sisters with whom they often fought, sometimes pretty roughly. There was nothing going on in our house that was worse, or even half as bad as, some other families I know of.
That's part of the disconnect here, Lauderdale. You are thoroughly invested in the idea that all those kids who turned up on front row were in dire, dire straits and in need of rescue. That simply isn't true. Most of us were just pretty typical families who's parents became convinced of your view of things. The vast majority of people who grew up in those days did not, as you predicted, land up deadinsaneorinjail. They just... grew up. And, I think, probably better off w/o the cult baggage.
Speaking strictly for myself, I was already impressing some people who might well have opened doors for me. I was all about the entrepreneurial spirit. I was an excellent student, too. But I'll never know how any of that might have turned out. While I was locked away, unable to speak for myself, dear old Mom was busy, busy, busy in her recruiting efforts telling everybody I ever knew and all their parents about how I was a druggie in residential treatment. It was a big blow to me when I got back to my home town. Everyone I looked up or ran into, the fist thing they'd ask me was "how are you doing w/ your drug problem?"
Even my elderly old cousin was obviously frightened of me when I went to visit her. Ironically, that loser who I had hooked up w/ early on wound up working as the handyman in her apartment complex. And he used to bring our daughter along quite often. So she, at least, got to have a relationship w/ Cousin K., even though neither one knew who the other was.
--- Quote --- My mom was in and out of nuthouses when I was a kid. She'll be 80 this year more sane than ever. I don't get it. She just needed a few bucks in her pocket to make her feel right about herself and believe me it really made the difference somehow.
--- End quote ---
You mean, she didn't need the Seed to get through her midlife crisis? Imagine that!
--- Quote ---
Normal what the fu-- is that?
I guess I have it as normal as ever now and like you I would not trade a minute of it for what I have now. So maybe that is the Middle ground.
--- End quote ---
Exactly!
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones
--- End quote ---
Thom:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 11:25:00, Antigen wrote:
"
Unknown to my dear brother at the time, Dad continued to come around the house to visit me and my sister on his lunch hour almost every day. And he continued to pay child support, as well as soliciting funds and other donations for the Seed. See, while he wouldn't accept disrespect or belittlement from you turkeys, he completely bought into your fear-mongering over the "counterculture". In fact, I'd say he may have been even more strident about it.
I can't explain the descrepency. But Thom remembers Dad as having been absent for a long time. I remember the shack in the tomato field where I-95 now meets, I think, old Copans. I remember the 3 salvaged refrigerators in it, each stocked w/ a different brand of beer for his friends. And I remember the 6'+ rattle snake that he killed and skinned and hung from the old Slurpee truck he used to drive around town. I could go on and on w/ fond (and some not so fond) memories of my dad's continued involvement in us kids' lives. He pretty much involved himself just about as much as the situation would allow. "
--- End quote ---
Ginger, That was a very informative post, thanks! I did not know Dad came around at lunch time. I'm glad you had that time with him. When I made mention before of my perceived lack of Dad I wasn't really complaining. I figure he couldn't handle being around Mom for various reasons. It probably had an adverse impact on me, but none that I was aware of at the time.
When I could drive, (legally) I had lots of good times with him. We were drinkin'- shootin' buddies for a while. I used to go over to Fobes' house and put away a few cold ones with them. They were funny drunk! I learned a lot about re-loading and firearms from him. It was our hobby together. I wasn't a gun nut, nor am I anti-gun, but I joined him where he was on that one.
One time, he, his Dad, Jim and I went fishing at locksahatchie. The exciting part of that trip was when the motor fell off. Dad cussed a lot, jumped in and a few seconds later had it to the surface, hopped back in the boat, cussed a lot, and cranked it up. I don't remember if we caught anything, but what I will never forget was what a big moment for Dad that must have been, lazy motor excepting, to have 3 generations together in an attempt at enjoying a 'normal' activity. An odd coincidence here was that Sandi's parents ran the restaurant / tackle store out there at about that time. We didn't meet til probably 6-7 years later.
There were uncomfortable moments too. Sometimes I would find him at that little redneck bar on Atlantic pretty toasted, and help him home. It felt strange to be in the role of care taker at 17 or so, but it was rare.
The shack, (The Diamond Club) was located just south of Atlantic (in view of it, at the time, now a bunch of apartments on the canal between) a few blocks west of Dixie. The Diamond Club, as it was previously known, had been a secret card room for city officials, Police Chief for one, and local business men. Not sure of the time frame, likely 40's, 50's 60's.
I think he shot that rattle snake in the shack, but I may be confusing that with a big rat he shot there.
The Slurpee truck was actually a retired mail truck. At one point, after he was fired from the PO, he painted "U.S.Mell" on the side. He would drive by the postmonster's office and wave (single digit).
A true character, that Mac!
Thanks again for filling in some blanks for me. :smile:
BTW, Ginger and Lauderdale, Normal is asettin' on a washing machine and/or dryer. (You couldn't prove that by me, I don't recall ever settin' on either one)
what is 'Screw that little dweeb and his lame attempts at censorship. You can read the damned thing right here:' about? [ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-10-06 16:45 ]
Anonymous:
Ginger, just dropping a brief comment here, i think echoing what Walter said. your comments a few pages back, two long posts, were very well written and explained things quite well. the hardest thing i think is to write a balanced post to such a hard emotional issue.
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