Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Dear Art,
GregFL:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 10:16:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:
"Sure it was a copycat program. That doesn't make it the same. Have you ever seen a sequel of a movie, usually its not quite as good as the original.
--- End quote ---
Ever seen the "dawn of the dead series"
Same ole shit movie after movie... Except that last one of course...much better than the original!
:grin:
What the hell do movie sequels have to do with anything? Straight, Inc. was the seed, minus Art Barker and some other egomaniacs. that is all. The original staff members were Seed graduates, the staff was all seed parents, and the intake lady was the seed's intake lady.
same exact stuff, same problems, same success stories, same people complaining about broken families, same people claiming it saved them.
Here is an exercise for you...name one significant difference between the Seed model of treatment and the modalities of Straight, Inc.
Thank you in advance. Checks in the mail.
Ft. Lauderdale:
You liked the last one? The one that was just at the movies in the last month or so? Sorry- I walked out. It was land of the Dead. Even had a good Director Romero. God, even with Simon Baker & John Leguizano it still sucked as far as I'm concerned.
Your right I didn't know your family- but I think they did use you as a pawn, no matter how much I know about it.
We will never even meet half way on anything.
I'm wasting my time. Its not worth it. I've got better things to do.
Anonymous:
What, a new "dawn of the dead" sequel coming out today?
I here this one will be REALLY good!!! They finally made the proper improvements and got it right this time!!
:grin: :grin: :grin:
Fight,Disagree, Bicker, whatever, I still like you Ft Lauderdale.
GregFL
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 12:03:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:
We will never even meet half way on anything.
--- End quote ---
Not true, not in the least. All but maybe a few critics have conceded that your intentions were good. You're welcome, btw. I've often stood all alone in believing that it was never just about the money. We all agree that some people benefited from the experience. Not just in the sense that we'll take your word for it, but in the sense of having gained new insight and understanding from individuals telling us about their own experience. I still think it's more about adversity having made them stronger than anything else. But I think that meets the standard of meeting you halfway.
--- Quote ---
I'm wasting my time. Its not worth it. I've got better things to do."
--- End quote ---
Can you just take a stab at answering the question? I realize you're at a distinct disadvantage w/ me and Greg here. After all, you had no contact w/ those rebellious, awful, bogus Seedling wannabees after Art instructed you to treat them like splits and withdraws. But please, if you're so thoroughly convinced that your right and we're wrong about it, can you just make an attempt at explaining why?
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
--- End quote ---
Antigen:
Walter, I'm sorry, I missed your post in all the excitement and flurry.
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 10:32:00, cleveland wrote:
I am also guessing that there was a group of kids who left the Seed and went on to get into trouble; some will say that is due to the Seed but I think it is only anecdotal.
--- End quote ---
I agree w/ you that it's anywhere from difficult to impossible to sort out cause and effect. On that, I hope, we can all agree. But here's a grain of salt for you in the form of a personal anectdote.
What kind of effect do you think Program culture and all those open meetings might have on the mind of a little kid such as I was? I can tell you some of it, the rest is anybody's guess. For one, I was never allowed anything close to a normal relationship w/ ... well, with anybody. Non-Seedlings were taboo, even at age 8 or so. I couldn't confice my real thoughts, feelings or difficulties w/ family, either; not w/o running the unthinkable risk of being deemed a soon-to-be-druggie and getting a dose of the "treatment". So I was just about the most lonely little girl imaginable and I couldn't even confess to being lonely. After all, I had the whole Seed family to call my own... yadda, yadda, yo know how that goes.
Second, I got a lot of my worldview from the Program. After all, I had no other sources and there was all KINDS of pressure to accept Art's fantasy as reality.
Take, for example, the intended effect of all those newcomer and oldcomer introductions vs. the unintended consequences on an impressionable little kid. The intent, of course, was to shock the squares in the audience w/ all the raunchy details of druggied teenaged girls gone wild. To me? I heard over and over again about stealing the family car, doing drugs, hitchhiking around the country and being permiscuous. And I believed as I was told (of course I did! I was a little kid) that that was THE alternative to being a good little Seedling. When the pressure became too much, I took the only alternative I knew of. What a fucking wakeup call that was!
Where I had been the weird, loner geek in school up until then, THAT made me a total pariah. The week or so that I attended highschool between my grand adventure as Queen of the Road and my intake at Straight, kids who used to treat me rather decently actually turned and walked the other way when they saw me coming. My behavior, which I took entirely from all those "whenIwasadruggieeeeee...." stories was completely enexplicable and frightening to my schoolmates. They just didn't know how to deal w/ that.
So thank you, Art, for sharing your wisdumb and worldview. If it hadn't been for you, I might have just grown up like a normal kid and, like most our former family friends and neighbors, graduated highschool, married a local boy, raised kids, gone into business, etc. I must say (and I'm only being half snide here) this path has been, by far and away, more interesting, even if it has probably been more difficult. Either way, here I am today. I wouldn't want to change one detail for fear of never even knowing the joys of living the life I have now.
I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract the congregation's attention from the rest of the service.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist
--- End quote ---
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