Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Dear Art,
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 07:59:00, GregFL wrote:
"Really? I missed it?
Thank God then, I'm one of the lucky ones!
::cheers::
--- End quote ---
Me too!
You can't credit or blame the Program entirely for either good or bad outcomes.
Some people just didn't get the promised help and may have lost family support, vital time at a critical developmental phase in their lives, educational oportunities, etc. Others lost years or even decades in devotion to the cult. Some, like my dear brother, have dedicated their lives to the stepcult, even rejecting blood family over it, despite a lifetime of serious issues not present prior to the first round of intense indoctrination.
Some people DID get just that fucked up and remained so. Or made permanent, serious mistakes as a direct result of their involvement w/ a cult. I just talked to a lady the other night who lost a friend around 15 years ago. He was a Program graduate who, it was rumored, had stepped over the line and used forbidden drugs. As a result, his family kicked him out, all the friends he had had (Program grads) abandoned him, wouldn't even talk to him. Within a week or two, he closed himself into a garage, started the car and sucked on the tailpipe till he died.
People who knew him attibute that entirely to the total shunning mandated by the Program (all for his own good, of course). And now those people who knew and loved him and who helped completely demoralize him have to live w/ the question of how much their fidelity to the program over him contributed to his despair.
Myself? I can't imagine a scenareo where I would have landed up pregnant by the jackass I did wind up with, except that I was completely untethered and alone, looking for anything to hang onto. But I can't really complain; the baby is now a beautifal and baudacious young woman of whom I'm very proud and some of the losers relatives have become some of my best friends. All in all, not knowing what may have been behind door #1 or #2, I wouldn't change a thing.
Now, any of this can be overcome. I'm living proof. But that doesn't mean that the Program influence is benign, far less that it's usually helpful. As far as I can tell based on the people who have weighed in on the issue over the years, it's been a destructive force in most people's lives, though most have proven themselves resilient enough to overcome it.
Somebody, who often likes to pretend nobody knows his name, keeps calling me vindictive, even jealous (LOL) for my persistant criticizm.
It would be nice, and I don't deny it, to see some vindicatin; to have my college fund and inheritence and my childhood home back, to have my family not so divided and all the rest. I don't deny that. Who among us is really that far above it all? But it's not a realistic expectation. I never thought it was. What I'm after is much more practical. What I'm after is as simple as getting the truth out about these methods of "treatment". If you guys will kindly quit selling this toxic snake oil, I'll thank you for that. But I don't expect it. So do expect for me to refute your wild claims and to give support and assistance to anyone else who's willing to do so.
--- Quote ---in 1966, C.S. Lewis wrote:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
--- End quote ---
In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.
--James Madison, U.S. President
--- End quote ---
GregFL:
Ginger!
What a well written, well thought out reply!
I am 100% in agreement with everything you said.
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-10-06 08:06:00, FueLaw wrote:
What if a kid was truely mentally ill,how were incompetent staff members,like John Underwood & others, going to help them? The bastards and bitches on staff could barely help themselves how in the world could they really help others?
--- End quote ---
I would stop short of calling most of them bastards and bitches. At least, right now given the thoughtful tone of the current conversation. I alwasy believed that they believed, and do to this day, every last word they said/say; even when they directly contradict themselves, even when they do it in the same breath.
The trouble was never that they were out to do harm to us. It's that they were, and some remain, totally delusional. They confused forcing confessions and professions of gratitude w/ actually effecting positive changes in their young charges. And they still do to this day. It's just exactly the same as the way a wife or child beater will beat professions of undying love and devotion out of his victim and then take that as proof that he's a great guy. If the victim ever deviates from that line (or if he even imagines or suspects any infidelity), well then the beatings will continue until the crying stops.
--- Quote ---I think it is rather funny that Seed will take credit for any possible success stories but yet take no responsibilty for any of the failures. Why is that?
--- End quote ---
See above.
Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446
--- End quote ---
Anonymous:
Dear Art, Shelly and others,
Thank you for everything. I really was a drug addict before I came in the seed. Really. I shot heroin and had a criminal record. I was a big scary guy,and I was on the path of destruction. No one liked me, my family had given up, and the legal system was about to lock me up for years. These facts are indisputable.
However, I had a much bigger problem that you so graciously allowed me to solve. How do I explain this?
The group was so accepting of me, helping me with my social issues. Eventually this problem dissapeared altogether.
Okay, I did return to hard drugs and continued with my addiction issues once leaving the seed, but my biggest problem has remain solved.
You, Art Barker, are a miracle worker. Sure, eventually the seed and I parted ways, but I never forgot what you did for me.
You cured me of being black.
For this I will always be gratefull.
Arthur
Ft. Lauderdale:
Greg I guess its you who have made such mockery of legimate human beings lives. Its amazing to me how guilty you and Antigen are of making the same accusations that you make of others.
Alot of lives were helped at the seed. You speak nothing of this. Only that they are cult followers or zombies or ass wipes. I guess its a shame that you never saw the good, there was alot of good to see. I never said I thought the Seed was perfect, far from it. Its principals made me into a human being that I'm proud of. I guess thats what counts in the end.
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