Anchor Academy for Boys in Havre, Montana.

[OverLordd]

Pastor be sure to speak to the children in private, with a promise that you will not discuss it with the program people. These children need to feel protected if they are to say anything.

[Pastor]

On 2005-10-08 23:08:00, OverLordd wrote:

"Pastor be sure to speak to the children in private, with a promise that you will not discuss it with the program people. These children need to feel protected if they are to say anything."

I understand what you are saying but remember these are young men...Most of what I have seen and visited with are 15 and up.  I think they would resent you calling them children. We had a number of them (40) here in our church a few months ago.  There were no restraints, no extra discipline, not a problem one.  Very excellent group.  Well mannered, respective to the adults.  We heard from a number of them.  Either they are all brainwashed or there is some good things happening at this program.

[Anonymous]

Pastor, it appears your Baptist Church wants to to support this so-called school, and wants to accept that nothing is wrong there, and wants to accept that firing a child molester just clears up everything. You already have on blinders. That is evident. You are not searching for any TRUTH, you are merely justifying why that so-called school in in existence and why your  church should continue to support it.

[OverLordd]

I understand what you are saying but remember these are young men...Most of what I have seen and visited with are 15 and up. I think they would resent you calling them children. We had a number of them (40) here in our church a few months ago. There were no restraints, no extra discipline, not a problem one. Very excellent group. Well mannered, respective to the adults. We heard from a number of them. Either they are all brainwashed or there is some good things happening at this program.

Very well, youth then. Is youth ok? But anyway, you have to understand how the portgams work pastor, they only take the broken ones out into public. The high level ones or whatever you want to call it. They show a good face and keep the ones fighting still at the compound. Those that are shown to the public may not nessasarly be brain washed but indeed they are being held in check some how, via horror or threat, or something else.

[Anonymous]

By law, these young men are "children".  MINORS.  

And yes, "children" who reside in private programs ruled by fear and intimidation often suffer abusive treatment at the hands of adults  ... in silence.  Anyone who expects otherwise is sadly mistaken.

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

Pastor said:
What I see here in this forum is also a negativity toward anything that might smack of God or Christ, or "religion." True Christianity is not abusive and is not violent. Many of you have seen the opposite and I am sorry for that. I truely believe that there are some good programs out there and they are doing a good work to help.< End of quote>

This is an abomination in itself. Christianity would not exist today with out Violence and forcing beliefs on others. Using fear as the prime tactic. If you didn't believe, you were tortued and or killed. I think we all know what I am talking about here.

I see how someone who believes christianity in any form or many other formed religious Organizations, can not see abuse or violence. They may see it as a path to "God" Showing someone the "better" way. All in all it is forced group think that makes people comply to any program. These Children would never tell you of abuse, because it would not be safe for them to do so.

To deny Christianity was forced on millions by sheer violence is just Blasphemous. I have been personally asked to leave a church when I questioned their tactics. I'm not against any religion, but I must be aware of them all and take caution. Many allow abuse and violence ( maybe on a much smaller scale than before, but still greatly present) as a "showing the way"

[Pastor]

On 2005-10-09 11:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Pastor said:

What I see here in this forum is also a negativity toward anything that might smack of God or Christ, or "religion." True Christianity is not abusive and is not violent. Many of you have seen the opposite and I am sorry for that. I truely believe that there are some good programs out there and they are doing a good work to help.< End of quote>



This is an abomination in itself. Christianity would not exist today with out Violence and forcing beliefs on others. Using fear as the prime tactic. If you didn't believe, you were tortued and or killed. I think we all know what I am talking about here.



I see how someone who believes christianity in any form or many other formed religious Organizations, can not see abuse or violence. They may see it as a path to "God" Showing someone the "better" way. All in all it is forced group think that makes people comply to any program. These Children would never tell you of abuse, because it would not be safe for them to do so.



To deny Christianity was forced on millions by sheer violence is just Blasphemous. I have been personally asked to leave a church when I questioned their tactics. I'm not against any religion, but I must be aware of them all and take caution. Many allow abuse and violence ( maybe on a much smaller scale than before, but still greatly present) as a "showing the way""

Your reference to Christianity is different that my understanding and also Bible Christianity.  No one forces a belief on anyone as it pertains to the Bible.  Jesus never forced or pressed anyone to believe, that is a personal decisioin.   What you know of Christianity as you call it, is not what I believe.   Careful of lumping all of these things into one basket.  I for one don't want to be a part of that.  I am sorry for what you have experienced.  The Lord is not that way, unfortuntely, many are.  

I further resent the patronization I am recieveing on this forum.  I am continually referred to as blind, ignorant and un-educated and all of you feel sorry for me because I have not recieved the light like you.  I am sorry you don't know the type of Chrisitianity that I know and I am further sorry for the hurt you have recieved.  I have lerned to take each situation or individual and program for what it is and not condemn others because of those who have done wrong.

[Pastor]

On 2005-10-09 07:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Pastor, it appears your Baptist Church wants to to support this so-called school, and wants to accept that nothing is wrong there, and wants to accept that firing a child molester just clears up everything. You already have on blinders. That is evident. You are not searching for any TRUTH, you are merely justifying why that so-called school in in existence and why your  church should continue to support it."

Please don't catagoize me and please don't say what you don't know to be.  I justify nothing and I further resent you saying I do.  What we support is really none of your business.  You have on blinders in that you can't see any good in anything that isn't to your standard or code.  I don't know who you are, as you post Anonymously, and I doubt if you have any concern for the boys there either, but rather lump anyone who is trying to do a program as suspicious.  People do bad things.   Anchor fired the person who did wrong.  What more do you want them to do.  Draw and quarter everyone?  Would you be happy then.  What  should they have done....closed the school/program because someone did wrong?   Use your logic and when they did right, rejoice they didn't push it under the covers and let it continue.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-09 12:42:00, Pastor wrote:

"

On 2005-10-09 11:20:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Pastor said:


What I see here in this forum is also a negativity toward anything that might smack of God or Christ, or "religion." True Christianity is not abusive and is not violent. Many of you have seen the opposite and I am sorry for that. I truely believe that there are some good programs out there and they are doing a good work to help.< End of quote>





This is an abomination in itself. Christianity would not exist today with out Violence and forcing beliefs on others. Using fear as the prime tactic. If you didn't believe, you were tortued and or killed. I think we all know what I am talking about here.





I see how someone who believes christianity in any form or many other formed religious Organizations, can not see abuse or violence. They may see it as a path to "God" Showing someone the "better" way. All in all it is forced group think that makes people comply to any program. These Children would never tell you of abuse, because it would not be safe for them to do so.





To deny Christianity was forced on millions by sheer violence is just Blasphemous. I have been personally asked to leave a church when I questioned their tactics. I'm not against any religion, but I must be aware of them all and take caution. Many allow abuse and violence ( maybe on a much smaller scale than before, but still greatly present) as a "showing the way""

Your reference to Christianity is different that my understanding and also Bible Christianity.  No one forces a belief on anyone as it pertains to the Bible.  Jesus never forced or pressed anyone to believe, that is a personal decisioin.   What you know of Christianity as you call it, is not what I believe.   Careful of lumping all of these things into one basket.  I for one don't want to be a part of that.  I am sorry for what you have experienced.  The Lord is not that way, unfortuntely, many are.  



I further resent the patronization I am recieveing on this forum.  I am continually referred to as blind, ignorant and un-educated and all of you feel sorry for me because I have not recieved the light like you.  I am sorry you don't know the type of Chrisitianity that I know and I am further sorry for the hurt you have recieved.  I have lerned to take each situation or individual and program for what it is and not condemn others because of those who have done wrong.  "

 I wasn't patronizing you. I was pointing out that from your perspective things do infact look diffrent. And based on history, many cultures and religions used Violence as a means to impose their beliefs on others. History repeats itself, but often isn't realized until many years later. We must take caution to not allow our vision to be clouded based one ONE set of principles.

 My other point is children who may be being abused in any program will be afraid to tell someone or may not even realize for many years they were being abused. Group think is a powerful tool, which must be kept in check by many points of view. To keep in "check" a program by it's own principles will only benefit that specific program and hide any abuse which may be occuring. This is why often outside observations are brought in. Many of us here are trying to bring about change in how programs are regulated, and they must be regulated/evaluated by an outside/non bias observer.

 Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the more open people posting on Fornits.

[Pastor]

On 2005-10-09 09:40:00, OverLordd wrote:

"

I understand what you are saying but remember these are young men...Most of what I have seen and visited with are 15 and up. I think they would resent you calling them children. We had a number of them (40) here in our church a few months ago. There were no restraints, no extra discipline, not a problem one. Very excellent group. Well mannered, respective to the adults. We heard from a number of them. Either they are all brainwashed or there is some good things happening at this program.

Very well, youth then. Is youth ok? But anyway, you have to understand how the portgams work pastor, they only take the broken ones out into public. The high level ones or whatever you want to call it. They show a good face and keep the ones fighting still at the compound. Those that are shown to the public may not nessasarly be brain washed but indeed they are being held in check some how, via horror or threat, or something else."

Okay, I respect you for what you say.  I will speak to youth in private.  I will also ask the powers that be if there is anything going on and root out what "truth" is.  Are we not all kept in check by something.  Why don't we break laws?  Why don't we speed on the highway....fear of the consequences.   We must be careful how we say what we do...   If I tell a child that he should not do something and he does, and I tell him he will go to bed without supper, is this abuse?  To some it is.  The child made the decision.  Are you saying that there can be no consequesces for our wrong doing?   If I tell my son that he has to be in before 10 PM and he comes in at 10:30, and I say, okay, your decison, you can't have priviledges, I take away those priviliges.  Is that abuse?  Come, let's be reasonable.  Laws are right and laws are to obey.  If laws are not obeyed, then we have anarchy.   If using drugs is illegal and it is, then when someone uses drugs they disobey the law.  When I tell you that you can't smoke in my house, tobacco is a drug, and you do, then I give you a choice.  Don't use tobacco and stay in my house, or use it and leave.  Your choice.  Take the consequences.  A society, any society without boundries soon falls apart.  I could go on and on, but I want to hear what you say.  Thanks for listening.

[Anonymous]

I am kept in check by my desire to not harm others and myself.
Laws mean little to me when they were made for a time that is not now. By people who may or maynot have been abusing power, drugs, alcohol, their children, their wives etc.
Our world needs a hefty "looking into" We need to reflect on ourselves what our individual morals mean and how we can allow each person their rights as an incarnated Soul here. No matter their physical age.
Children have had their rights taken away.Is going to bed w/o supper abuse?How do you feel when you have been deprived of food as a punishment?I think we as people living here all together on this Earth need to wake up and take a good look at ourselves.
You as a Christian believe we should use fear of consequences as a motivator? I don't but I also I don't have a solution on a large scale, but there must be a better way.I also understand history has created this and would take  an enormus movement to change it.You and I are but 2 people who can work to come up with a solution.
Allowing children to learn about themselves and how they effect others without judgement or consquences would be ideal.Far too many people in power are afraid to give children this kind of self-rightous power. Based on the history of fear/control making our laws and Teaching us what our morals Should be, it doesnt look like a change will come any time soon. Sad for the fate of the world.
Don't be a victim of history repeating itself.Don't add to the propaganda of why things should be a certian way based on fear.

[Pastor]

On 2005-10-09 13:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am kept in check by my desire to not harm others and myself.

Laws mean little to me when they were made for a time that is not now. By people who may or maynot have been abusing power, drugs, alcohol, their children, their wives etc.

Our world needs a hefty "looking into" We need to reflect on ourselves what our individual morals mean and how we can allow each person their rights as an incarnated Soul here. No matter their physical age.

Children have had their rights taken away.Is going to bed w/o supper abuse?How do you feel when you have been deprived of food as a punishment?I think we as people living here all together on this Earth need to wake up and take a good look at ourselves.

You as a Christian believe we should use fear of consequences as a motivator? I don't but I also I don't have a solution on a large scale, but there must be a better way.I also understand history has created this and would take  an enormus movement to change it.You and I are but 2 people who can work to come up with a solution.

Allowing children to learn about themselves and how they effect others without judgement or consquences would be ideal.Far too many people in power are afraid to give children this kind of self-rightous power. Based on the history of fear/control making our laws and Teaching us what our morals Should be, it doesnt look like a change will come any time soon. Sad for the fate of the world.

Don't be a victim of history repeating itself.Don't add to the propaganda of why things should be a certian way based on fear."

Thank you for your reply.  I don't have the answer either and I do agree that the whole world needs looking into, but until then, I have to work with the system and laws we have.  Until then, we do the best we can.  Honesty and intgerity always are right.  If I am told to be at a place by 7 for a meal and I don't get there, I don't get the meal.  My disobeying, or not being prompt caused me to go without.  Sure it happens.  I may as an adult be able to govern myself and go elsewhere for a meal but maybe not too.  I go without supper.  I will learn to be there on time.  This doesn't seem to be a problem to me, like it does you.

Public School has as a god the athletic programs.  The students are told to do some things, if they don't, they run laps, don't get to play or something else.  Schools tell students they must keep a grade average to be in sports, if they don't they don't play.  A student soon learns these are the rules and to qualify they keep their grades up, and obey the coach.  In wrestling, they qualify in a weight divison.  They can meet the weight or not, their choice.  If it is abuse to do all these things, then we operate on a society of abuse.  A child who is a bully, is told not to do something.  If he does, what are you going to do?  Take that bully away from the rest of the children is an answer.  He is now set aside and told if he/she can't abide by rules, he will be over by himself.  Abuse?  No, he made the choice.  See, there has to be some sort of structure.  Anchor did hire this employee.  The employee did wrong, they turned him over to the authroities (three years ago) and the authorities prosecuted him.  The the Sheriff's office do wrong by prosecuting him?  it all depends on which side you are on, doesn't it?  Un disciplined children or undisciplined adults are all the same...without structure they become a rule and law unto themslves and hurt or cripple society.  No, I don't have all the answers either.  Wish I did.  But we must be logical and think through some answers.  What would you have these parents do who have rebellious boys or girls.  Do you want to follow the Bible principle of the Old Testament and take them out and stone them?  Of course not.  We try and yes, we fail.  I have heard of programs that are failures and do abuse children/youth.  Shut them down and prosecute them if they indeed are guilty of wrong.  On the other side of the coin, when a group....like Anchor Academy is doing right, encourge them and support them and in the same time police them so they don't do wrong.  Constant criticism and constant questioning and accusations is not the answer.

[OverLordd]

I love that idea, I really do. The world needs a "looking into." thats something that im going to remember for a long time. Thank you very much that.

What would you have these parents do who have rebellious boys or girls. Do you want to follow the Bible principle of the Old Testament and take them out and stone them? Of course not. We try and yes, we fail. I have heard of programs that are failures and do abuse children/youth.

What I really want them to do pastor is to love them. You know as well as I do that love is very powerful and it can do great things. If the parents were good parents then things like this would never happen and you know what I mean. If the parents loved their children then the children would not have to be forced to work for their repemption in the eyes of the parents.

[Anonymous]

Jesus did not practice TOUGH LOVE on sinners.

Why the pastor and all those who hurt children in the name of "Therapy", "Treatment" or "Salvation" can not see this is proof positive that the work they are doing is NOT the will of GOD but rather, the DEVIL, himself.

:flame:

[Pastor]

On 2005-10-11 14:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Jesus did not practice TOUGH LOVE on sinners.



Why the pastor and all those who hurt children in the name of "Therapy", "Treatment" or "Salvation" can not see this is proof positive that the work they are doing is NOT the will of GOD but rather, the DEVIL, himself.



:flame:

"

Oh, but I think he did.  Besides, you don't know what so called tough love is?   There are so many definitons running wild out there that I would want to know what you call so called "TOUGH LOVE."

Jesus didn't coddle the money changers when he drove them out of the temple.  Moses didn't treat those who were worshipping the golden calf very nice.  Made them drink the ground up gold and in so doing made them accountable for what they had done.  

And, be careful how you lump me with those who hurt children.  I would never allow nor would I condone children being abused or hurt.  You are quick to judge and quick to stack those who do wrong with someone who is seeking the truth.  Your quickness is as wrong as their's.  Just don't start throwing rocks till you know there is someone who is guilty.  There are plenty who are guilty and I would agree to that, But there are some who are not, and you don't seem to recognize that fact.