Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Why Did YOU Stay Away?
cleveland:
John,
I will confirm that I too, started to form what could have been wonderful friendships at the Seed. I will also note that the Seed encouraged me to reveal parts of myself that had been hidden by the need I felt to 'be cool' as a typically insecure kid. Singing songs, doing the soft shoe, and even the hokey-pokey blew my 'image' and I could be silly and goofy and have fun. These things provide the basis for the bond I feel with other ex-Seedlings Lauderdale, 80s Guy, Wtaylor and a few others who post here.
The flipside of that was that the Seed then required me (via peer pressure) to develop a Seed-acceptable 'image' and hide OTHER parts of myself - including creativity, ambition, independence, healthy sexual relationships - and that led me to leave.
I know that you and perhaps some others posting here might minimize those things or say it wasn't that way, at least when you were there, but this is true - dating, jobs, recreation, friendships and living arrangements were all planned or approved by Art and senior staff. And this was for senior oldcomers and newcomers alike, although high-status (read: people Art liked) people had a tiny bit more freedom.
You can say that this was 'necessary' for a variety of reasons, but many of us
Seedlings eventually rebelled and left, and for those that stayed, the whole thing blew up in their faces. There was way too much control and rigidity, and I had to be just as big a phoney in some ways at the Seed as I was before. Parts of the image where better but it still was fake. And for me, unhealthy.
By the way, there was now way for me to live there and 'take what I wanted and leave the rest' - that wasn't an option. I was either a total Seed kid or not - and by total I mean the whole thing - never questioning staff, not associating with anyone not involved with the Seed, not going to school, dating or trying a new career unless staff approved (and for me, staff didn't approve - those things I could do only after I left).
For seven years I did hold these things down within myself, thinking that I was one of the 'chosen few' who would lead 'Art's army' and that if I was humble and obediant I would be 'a part of the solution,' even if it meant that we could 'only help one kid' it would all be worth it. Thinking about myself or my needs was 'selfish' or just 'getting into my head' and thinking for myself was being an 'intellectual asshole.' How many times did I say to myself, I don't like this but - 'ours is not to question why, ours is but to do or die.'?
So my life as a celebate, lonely, insecure, uneducated, unhappy but loyal seedling continued for those long years, and why? Because I was an confused adolescent who had smoked pot probably 20 times? Because I came from a disfunctional family and I was looking to belong to something? Because Art and staff told me so?
No disrespect to you, Lauderdale, Thom, Richard, Robin or others who are loyal to the dream of the Seed, but I feel I must question it and everything that I accepted as dogma that came out of it, either AA derived or whatever. Those tools can be used to alter someones reality, and don't we all know some 12 steppers who are addicted to meetings? Nothing wrong with that, (or booze or pot, as far as I'm concerned) as long as it doesn't interfere with your ability to have a happy, productive, honest life. And everyone has to figure that out for themselves.
Best,
Walter
PS - Here's a quote that says it well: "Power is actualized only where word and deed have not parted company, where words are not empty and deeds not brutal, where words are not used to veil intentions but to disclose realities, and deeds are not used to violate and destroy but to establish relations and create new realities." Hannah Arendt
GregFL:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-26 10:05:00, cleveland wrote:
and don't we all know some 12 steppers who are addicted to meetings?
--- End quote ---
Well, yeah. Thom Mcnulty for one....
Thom:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-26 21:03:00, GregFL wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-09-26 10:05:00, cleveland wrote:
and don't we all know some 12 steppers who are addicted to meetings?
--- End quote ---
Well, yeah. Thom Mcnulty for one....
"
--- End quote ---
I've been addicted to far worse things, my friend
OR
Who are you to judge how i choose to worship?
We all enjoy freedom of religion here in the USA.
GregFL:
Hey, you can worship in twelve step meetings all you want Thom. I support your right to independently choose to do so, on your own free will.
Doesn't mean I won't call bullshit on it tho, and it doesn't mean I won't call out the violation of basic human rights when people are coerced into your religion, not to mention the violation of the constitution of the united states of america.
Then we get off into the subject when the twelve steps (or some of them) are mixed with coercive thought control and the lock down of non addicted individuals against their will....
cleveland:
I am all for people going to AA or other 12 step groups if they find fellowship there, but to me it's all 'a bunch of hooey' - no different from most other religions in that respect. But it should be a choice to go, and to leave, and to question all of those slogans.
By the way, Ann Lamott is a terrific auther and AA-er who I respect (Bird by Bird, Operation Instructions), also Augustin Burroughs (Dry, Running with Scissors). I read them and I see what they get out of it, but for me I just can't get over the Oxford Group quaksterism origins of all of that (see my posts here on this and read the Agent Orange website to find out about this Seed-like group circa 1920!). But maybe you want to eat Christ's body, chant, do a sufi dance, or read Dianetics, too...whatever! It's still all a bunch of hooey to me!
Walter[ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2005-09-27 07:14 ][ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2005-09-27 07:16 ][ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2005-09-27 07:16 ]
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