Author Topic: I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m  (Read 28434 times)

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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2005, 10:44:00 AM »
Jalong,
I'm sorry for your suffering.  I'm also glad you are healing.

Greg,
Please don't sensationalize.  Jalong said she had PTSD before she came in. Her abuser was  not a known sexual predator.  He was an asshole and a kid himself (I'm not making excuses for him )He did an inexcusable act and I'm sure none of this was known at the time.

Jalong,
I would not have wanted to be in your shoes sitting in the group with him right there either.

[ This Message was edited by: Ft. Lauderdale on 2005-09-22 08:01 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2005, 11:27:00 AM »
Lauderdale, who put that kid and other questionable characters in positions of authority over all those nonconsenting other kids? Think it was all Bruce's idea? That, somehow, he flew in under the "awareness" radar and scammed his way onto staff? I bet it wasn't even his idea. When staff asked me if I wanted to go on staff, it was an offer one couldn't refuse.

Seems there's a lot you didn't see going on. Forced strip searches are violence. Tackling someone for trying to walk away is violence. If these thing never happened in The Seed, then why was I expecting them when I landed up in Straight? Why was I not the least bit surprised to see someone thrown to the floor and sat on for refusing to say they were addicts and thankful for the "help"?

I can guess why cause I succumbed to it myself to a degree. We called that love. We repeated to ourselves and each other constantly that we did these violent things to each other out of love. Failure to adopt that perspective was just asking for a heaping helping of "love" yourself.

When I first got out, I couldn't sort my mind out about it well enough to even make a statement to law enforcement about the time I got sat on then bounced off the walls of a timeout room for awhile. At the time, in my mind, it was my fault. After all, I had a choice. I could have lied and said I was sorry for trying to get away. So I chose to get my ass kicked, right?

But it's been years and years. You still think it's a loving act to tackle someone who's trying to get away from you? Or have you actually blocked those incidents from your memory?

All religion is dumb. It's one big story they're feeding you so you'll  behave on Earth. If there is a god, then he's a prick.
--Howard Stern, American radio personality

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline wtaylorg

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2005, 11:40:00 AM »
I myself was never really physically abused. At least not in the traditional use of the term. I was pounced on a few times and could feel the hate coming from peoples eyes often enough. The abuse that was delivered to me was a systematic taking away of liberty and desire.

That being said, 2 former very good friends of mine both Seed kids and graduates of the program, told me about instances of rape that occurred to them whileon the program. This was while I was still involved with the program, early 80's, Both instances happened at foster homes by oldcomers/timers. One of the guys that had this happen to them has never seemed right. I lost track of him some yrs ago, but I hope he found therapy or a way to put it behind him.

I know the instances were brought to staff and the person was told to get over it. In what words I'm not sure. I suspect staff told them it was "not important".

It's just another example of  the debasing treatment we all received in way form or another.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2005, 12:32:00 PM »
Sensationalize?  Are you freaken kidding me?

How in the world could anything I say be more "sensational" than the words of a 16 year old girl, being held captive in a drug rehab with her rapist as one of the people in charge?  Know wonder she had PTSD before she went to the seed, and no wonder it worsened while she was there.

Sensationalize?

Get a grip...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2005, 12:36:00 PM »
Quote


My god I don't get your vendetta.  



Why must you assume I even have one?  Consider this..I have spent a considerable amount of my time and effort to make a place where the people I supposedly have a vendetta against could feel comfortable telling their side of the story, you included.

Why must everything and everyone be framed in black and white here?  

My personal feelings about the program is that it was generally harmfull. I have studied what it was, how it was done, who dun it and where it headed. It is of general interest to me. I love the topic, and I enjoy the people who get something out of the forum.

Sue me if you don't like it. There are several lawyers right here on the forum to choose from.

 :grin:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2005, 01:03:00 PM »
Antigen
 So you were on "Staff" at Straight Inc.?
How long did you work there?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2005, 01:07:00 PM »
No, I was on a newly invented phase called pre-training. I had every intention of hanging around through the trainee and, possibly, Jr. staff phases if I had to in order to escape to a college dorm or real job or something far, far away. But things got really .... intense, shall I say, while the HRS investigation was going on. A lot of us just up and split the day after all newcomers got started over and all days off and other "priviledges" were called in. I was one of those.

Babylon in all its desolation is a sight not so awful as that of the human mind in ruins.
-- Scrope Davies: Letter to Thomas Raikes, May 25, 1835.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2005, 01:15:00 PM »
Antigen,
You were never at the"Seed".  Straight INC. is not the seed.  The same things that happened to you at "Straight Inc. did not happen to you at the SEED.  Can you get that into your head you seem to have a problem differentiating the two.  
Maybe you shoud seek help in figuring this concept out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2005, 01:26:00 PM »
Then can you explain why I was just about the only newcomer who was expecting it? How would you know what Straight was like? Did you spend any time in Straight?

I did. You can keep on telling yourself that it was completely different. But I'm at a loss as to how you can keep believing it. So many fellow Seedlings have told you about the rapes and other violence that occured in the Seed. You never answer them. Only me. Why is that?

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
--Herbert Spencer

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2005, 01:46:00 PM »
No I was never at straight just like you were never on the Seed program.


And in answer to your question.  How the hell do you who I 've sent a private messages to.  Maybe I have asked.  You assume so much.
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Offline Antigen

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2005, 01:52:00 PM »
Let's just say the McNultys didn't always strictly abide by rules like "no talking behind backs" and "what goes on here stays here."

The fact remains that all I learned about the Program while my family was involved w/ the Seed held true and came in very handy when I found myself in Straight.

It's so obvious. John's story is that all those excesses and all the brutality was the fault of rebellious, misbehaving St. Pete parents. But ask anybody who was in Cleveland. They all got strip searched too. So did the kids in Ft. Lauderdale. Thom says he doesn't remember it. But there's a lot he doesn't remember.

I do clearly remember knowing that a strip search was a part of intake and that people who tried to walk or run away would be tackled to the ground and held there till they gave up.

How did I come to think that? Was it some sort of mental telepathy w/ those misbehaving St. Pete parents? Or could it possibly be that these practices really were carried on from the Seed?

Your explanation just seems a little far fetched to me. Essentially, you're saying that all of us who remember these things are just delusional, bitter and/or making things up. It doesn't wash, Lauderdale. It just doesn't.

Infidel: In New York, one who does not believe in the Christian religion; in Constantinople, one who does.
--Ambrose Bierce



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline rjfro22

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2005, 02:10:00 PM »
Antigen
             You were not in the Seed. Making sandwiches for the seed as a small child does not make you an ex -Seedling or a pro on the Seed. What are you talking about, so many people posting violent abuses and rapes, I only  read a couple of postings.  You are blowing thing way out of proportion.  Straight and the Seed were two different places, please don't blur them.
The only abuses I remember at the Seed was when someone was in the hot seat, some people sometimes became a little to cruel, and for people or did not want to be there (forced by their parents) well of coures they would feel abused. The Seed was like a bootcamp , it was a tough love program,  it worked for me.
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Offline John Underwood

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2005, 02:11:00 PM »
Strip searches: People atttempted to bring drugs into the program, usually pot. I can't even believe this needs explaining.
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Offline wtaylorg

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2005, 02:11:00 PM »
Check your private messages Ft. Lauderdale
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Offline John Underwood

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2005, 02:15:00 PM »
...and for the record, strip searches weren't arbitrarily decided upon as a pre-emptive, they began only after newcomers were caught with drugs on the premises at Andrews Ave.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »