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<"2. Program for life? If you mean that literally, of course that?s absurd, never should have been advocated. Even more than absurd, directly counter to the very purpose of the program, though I don't personally remember ever hearing that.">
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It wasn't just advocated, it was required. I have no reason to doubt the posters here who have asserted this. You might see Terrance :lol: as a reliable source, ask him. He's confirmed this here as well. So many of the later changes amazed me as well when I first heard of them.
(btw ft. lauderdale, I'm picking about your name, not your credibility here. Terrance is almost as weird as marshall!)
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3. <"It was never Art?s business who someone married. I married a Seed grad a over year before leaving. It was certainly, at best, frowned upon (and unwanted) before the marriage, but to their credit, it was supported with sincerity after the fact.">
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According to several here, this too changed and Art or staff had to give the OK for anyone (remember we're talking about what you or I would call 'graduates' or long-time members) to even date, much less marry. I realize this wasn't true when you were there. I remember the announcement of your marriage and have written about that here.
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<"Long term career - individual decision.">
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You would think, huh? I hope some of the later-day members (sounds like a cool name for a sect) will step in here and again give their stories on these issues.
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7. Art is for sissies? Now do you mean studying Art Barker, or aesthetics?">
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Aesthetics. Members, especially male members were discouraged from this unmanly pursuit, it seems.
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<" I?ve never seen anyplace, school, the workplace, The Seed Discussion Forum, et al, where inner circles, cliques don?t exist. Again, too bad, part of the condition human.">
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I agree....but. That is really funny. The Seed had rules against cliqueing and I recall raps about how our druggie friends weren't really friends...we just cliqued together. It was seen as a bad thing. I can only imagine the response of you or any staff member to a newcomer standing up and saying what you just wrote. "Sure my friends & I were part of a clique...it's the human condition...too bad!"
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<" I?m certainly not going draw definitive conclusions based solely on information gathered here">
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I understand. Perhaps you might have some other sources for confirmation that you would feel more confident in trusting. Just thought you might be interested in how the group evolved after you left.
On the flip side, others (I think Robin is one) have stated that the program indeed admitted clients on a sliding pay scale at some point. Perhaps she was talking about you and those you admitted in this way? I well remember walking near the back offices on SR 84 as an oldcomer and hearing you and Lybbi yelling at each other...well actually, I remember her yelling at you and you just sitting there. (I had to glance in to see WTF was going on.)
You've spoken of many of us here having expectations of perfection, with the implication that any criticism of the program (such as the above questions / critiques of the post-underwood seed) implies simple nit-picking or fault-finding for the sake of wallowing in negativity, etc. This seems like a subjective judgement. Where do you draw the line in such matters? It's like criticizing the government or president.
Also, as with the cliqueing response...I wonder how any staff member would have reacted if we had a rap on how selfish or lazy we were pre-seed & someone stood up and said; "You all just have expectations of perfection. My friends & I were only human...we made mistakes. You're just nit-picking our former lives." ? I'm only half-kidding here. That indeed seems to be some of what went on. Any 'bad' thing we thought or did was amplified or exagerated in group and any positive qualities were dismissed. You promoted that sort of thing at the Seed but seem irritated by what you perceive as similar attitudes here. (posters amplifiying or emphasizing the negative aspects of the program and giving short-shrift to any postive aspects)
Thanks muchly for your response.
(BTW, you did my intake. I remember you asking if there was anything else I needed to give to my parents...rings, wallets, etc...I then mentioned that I was wearing a wig and reached up and took it off..revealing a very bald head. The Georgia prison system had just shaved my head a week or so before my Seed intake. My parents had just bought the wig a few days before...one of those 70's hairstyles. You looked so strange...like you were trying your best not to burst out laughing. You told me I couldn't wear it. I remarked; "I guess it is a bit pretenscious". Later, some people that first saw me stand before the group said they thought I'd come from some cult. I kept it for years & used that wig to scare my children while playing with them.)