as*****

[Anonymous]

why should he apologies. all everyone here does is throw insults at one another. he puts up a post, about his experience with people he knew and what happens to them and gets called an asshole for it.
yes this website is clearly a free exchange of thoughts and ideas. or we have someone who'll keep posting something to the effect of "john will never be back, we'll never see him again" , "oh did i say that i didnt mean it, welcome back john", "asshole"
yes this encourages someone to post on this site. sure everyone else you guys want to talk to will love to come here so they can simply be called an "asshole" everytime they make a post. i dont care if john is right or wrong, or kind or not, but this is getting ridiculous. of course if someone calls the wrong person an "asshole" then we all get a stern warning. but if we call the right person an "asshole" we can have a nice day. and people wonder why some people refer to people speaking with "venom" on this site? then they get come down on for wanting to get along, and told to go elsewhere, because of course everyone was just "disagreeing" no harm in that. we are all allowed to say what we want, which of course only applies if you are the right person saying the right thing, because if you happen to be john you are an asshole everytime you open your mouth. of course if john had called someone an asshole after a post similar to his everyone would have been all over him. i know we all have our own personal views and leanings but this is pathetic. we can insult people all we want? then whats the point of this website? its certainly not discussion. not in everyones case. i know some people are probably mad at john (brilliant obersvation on my part) and have personal experiences with him from the past. but at some point enoughs enough. its funny to me how the people who are admonished for "their attacks" are using disagreeing with a select few. i watch a guy write a thoughtful post a few months back in a thread i think that was about John P and it gets pointed out right away that "he's attacking dispite his "flowery words". now he used no swearing and wrote a gentle post, but was clearly on the wrong side of the arguement. call john an asshole all you want and no problem. we just wont say anything.

of course it wont matter what i say.i am anon and thus deserviing of insults myself. of course the reason i have never bothered registering for the site is shit like this.  

by the way, i do not agree with everything john says, or perhaps even a lot of it. i specifically disagree with a great deal of it. i am not saying this because i am a john u supporter. simply i am sick to death of unprovoked insults.

and i am sure i'll get a reply saying somethign to the effect of " of course you are doing it also". if anyone can figure out a way for me to post a strong disagreement to what i consider to be a nasty set of posts i am happy to hear it.

[GregFL]

Unprovoked insults?

Go back and read his initial insulting post and follow ups.

You sure you read that thread right?


As far as warnings, there is no "language" filter. Cuss away.  I have said repeatedly that posts that soley have content meant to attack someone won't stand.  Neither John's or The follow up posts qualify.

Rest assured you can say anything you want in this forum. I have deleted exactly two posts...both of them vile and with sexually demeaning content and no other content whatsoever.

The warnings have been few and far between, and the last one was on someone that normally agrees with me. I won't say who because they posted anon and were in a futile exchange with someone who was anonymously trying to incite problems here.  You wanna try moderating this site? It isn't all that easy, and the pay frankly is a little weak. But hell, I still enjoy it so on with the show!

But you are right, enough is enough. Anyone with balls big enough to come on here and start telling people they need their "diaper changed" in all caps deserves to called an asshole because frankly, that is how they are behaving.  I think Marc nailed that one. But in any event, whether you agree or not, I am not in the habit of moderating content, only vile attacks.  I hope that helps you understand.  I have been called worse than that many times and the posts stand. Ginger, who owns the bandwith, has been repeatedly insulted and the posts all stand.  I think you aren't seeing this too clearly.

[Anonymous]

he was called an asshole previous to his all caps post. his first post was not provoking.

i am not saying moderating this site is easy at all. i think quite the contrary.

neither you nor ginger should be insulted as well. you both created this site (i believe) and deserve respect for doing so, and maintaining it.

[GregFL]

I too am sick of unprovoked insults.  An example would be in the very thread we are speaking of Stripe answered John and then Thom came back and suggested she check herself into charter.

Now, how is this provoked by Thom... who incidentially had just puckered up to John U just like he was a 1 week newcomer trying to get permission to take a pee?

some of this stuff is just childish to be sure. But it will only stop when the people who practice it decide to act like adults and open their  minds to the fact that other people have different ideas than them. This message site is about the exchange of those ideas.

John was and is welcomed on this site with open arms. I set an Unprecedented deal for him, an entire thread where he could answer questions with no negative feedback, and he declined but instead choose to continue to try to belittle people. His choice. But the inference that this site is one sided I take Extreme exception too. I have always made this site open for everyone and encouraged everyone to participate. I still do. This site is for Everyone that went to the seed and is not about any one individual or any one set of ideas.

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-20 05:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"he was called an asshole previous to his all caps post. his first post was not provoking.



i am not saying moderating this site is easy at all. i think quite the contrary.



neither you nor ginger should be insulted as well. you both created this site (i believe) and deserve respect for doing so, and maintaining it. "

Well, looking back your right and maybe Mark's comment was over the top, but it didn't violate any specific "Vile comment" rule.

But do tell, just who do you suppose John meant this comment for.

"I should also mention, specifically for those of you with crystal balls in your heads or just enamored with your own musings,"

After titleing the thread  "for Marshall and Greg".

And pray tell, what exactly did I say that set him off pretending like he was staff again? Read my post..no insults just a straight to the point comment. I think I know what John attempted to do there..lay out a point, wait for a response and pounce...just like he used to do when leading group.  That duck don't fly here. we are not scared children, and from what I see, most of us here know far more about how the seed operated than JU ever did.

John has been the one provoking negativity here.  That is obvious and outright blatant. His hostility is seething right under the surface and comes screaming out in bold type and insultive prose.

And thank you for acknowledging what you did. Please take a look at the mission statement whidch can be found on the front page of fornits..

"The seed discussion forum is for survivors of the Seed and Seed copycat programs and for other interested parties. The moderator and owner of this forum accept no responsiblity for content. This is a first admendment based open discussion and all opinions and topics are welcome. By posting or reading, you agree to these terms."

I wrote those words before I ever posted the first post in the forum. It has always been my vision that I would provide a place for us all to discuss this, and Unprecendented forum where all ideas would be welcome and we could actually all come to terms with what sort of animal/beast we were really involved in.

For the record, this is my forum and I asked Ginger to create it so I could run it, but I did nothing but piggyback on Ginger's software and bandwith. She runs the server, she pays for the bandwith, she deals with a lot of crap all for free. Why? Because it is her vision to provide an outlet where people can discuss all about various aspects of the teen help industry, where the truth can find its way. This is all a public service...all of it.


Anon, go ahead and register. It has been my experience that people that give respect around here get it back for the most part, regardless of what side of the issue they are on.

While that isn't always true, it is mostly true. I am doing the best I can.

[Anonymous]

::rocker::

[GregFL]

I think we can. One of the biggest catalyst to problems here is people sniping at other people anonymously. I think accountablity goes a long way.

lets all try to make an effort to speak with our handles...I think that will help.

[Antigen]

Honestly, I think the big disconnect is failure in some people to distinguis between the cult and the individual current or former member.

Criticize the cult and the devout take it personally. And, most often, they respond according to perfectly acceptable cult standards for how to treat an apostate. It's ok to lie to them, insult them... whatever. They're just bitter, ungrateful druggy losers, after all, who's lives are all screwed up, &Ect. Then they'll say they're trying to help us losers see the light and, astonishingly after all these years, they probably believe it!

Then they wonder why people take offense.  :roll:

But, nasty as it gets around here sometimes, I do think it's valuable and says a lot about our weird little shared history here.

By the year 2000, we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God.
--Gloria Steinam, women's rights activist

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous

[Anonymous]

Greg states:

?But the inference that this site is one sided I take Extreme exception too.?
?John has been the one provoking negativity here.?

Marcwordsmith states:
 ?John, every time you post, you just reveal yourself to be a bigger jackass.?
?Asshole.?
?He was, in a very real sense, a career criminal.?
?He came, he saw, he farted stupendously once or twice, and he split.?

Greg?s response: Nada

Greg states:

?But the inference that this site is one sided I take Extreme exception too.?
?John has been the one provoking negativity here.?

Stripe states:
?John U:  Fuelaw said -By the way John Underwood is a disgraceful human being !
I completely concur.?
?-it just goes to show that you are a sheep - a follower, a bleater. BAAAHHHH Someone who has no original thoughts whatsoever. BAAAHHHH?
?John Underwood: Look at your life and tell me why are all those whom you have identified in such states of misfortune? What is it about YOU that brings, swirls, and holds all of this misfortune, sadness, death and confusion to you and the lives of those you touch??
It should be noted that in a post Stripe acknowledges she never actually knew John U.

Greg?s response: Nada

Greg states:

?But the inference that this site is one sided I take Extreme exception too.?
?John has been the one provoking negativity here.?

Fuelaw states:
?Low rent maggots, such as yourself,?
?scum of the earth maggots like Robert Chun and John Underwood.?
?John Underwood is a disgraceful human being !?

Greg?s response:
?I think it important to note that Fuelaw is not now some worthless Junkie?

Yes, I believe Greg exemplifies impartiality, and readily identifies the source of negativity.

[Anonymous]

greg, just to be be clear. we have two different anon's posting here.
i havent had a chance to respond to your responses. i probably wont tonight since i am just droping a quick line, but wanted to put this one up real quick and to state i appreciate your replies to me.

[GregFL]

anon 1, thanks for your reply.

Anon 2, it is clear what you are and have been trying to do here, divide us into two camps. It won't work. Nice try. Why don't you go back and list every attack against Ginger or Stripe that I also didn't respond too?

Am I to react to every post?  Am I supposed to be some  babysitter of every word posted on this site? Sorry, taint gonna.

happen Unless someone is posting vile content or a thread is getting out of control, I stay out of it unless I feel my PERSONAL opinion is justified. I am a participant here and my opinion is neither more valid or less valid than yours.

In the example you site above with Fuelaw, a very serious claim of abuse was alleged. It wasn't Vile content. My post was to preempt a bunch of "your a druggie loser" type posts and to keep a very unprecidented thread ON TOPIC. Also note I never took a position on the veracity of his statement on whether John U abused him or not. In the context of his claims some anger is understandable. Before JU ever posted one word here I told him to expect some anger and he said he Knew it would come and he still chose to post. Unfortunately, JU never answered the abuse claim but instead choose to just insult all lawyers in general.

Now Anon, go do your homework and try to poke some more holes in our online community. It has been your mission for  the last month, afterall, to disrupt and belittle this forum and to anonymously attack Ginger, Marc  and Stripe, eh?  Don't forget I see all your postings whether you post them under your handle or post them "anon". Wanna list my responses to your anon attacks? They don't exist.

You wanna talk about partiality? Go look in the mirror.

[Anonymous]

Correction, I believe the abuse claim was specifically addressed in John U's very 1st message board post.

[Thom]

On 2005-09-20 07:43:00, GregFL wrote:

"lets all try to make an effort to speak with our handles...I think that will help.



"

I just tried speaking with my handle, but I got no response. :cry:

[marcwordsmith]

This is truly remarkable. I've never seen a forum where anonymous posters get to sound off so much and are taken so seriously.

And now even Greg is saying that I "may have been over the top"?

All right then I'll explain myself. Probably a bad idea, but we'll see what happens . . .

Dear Anonymous, and Greg, and anyone else who thinks my "asshole" post to JU was "over the top" . . .

I wrote what I wrote in response to the following comments by John Underwood:

"I should also mention, specifically for those of you with crystal balls in your heads or just enamored with your own musings, at age 15, not a single one, NONE, of the aforementioned, (including myself), had ever used an illegal drug. Some had used alcohol, myself included, but most, nothing!"

Do you get that this was snide and condescending language, from a man who has a FUCKING UNMITIGATED NERVE to sneer at ANYONE on this website? Do you get the assinine, ludicrous insinuation--that because he and his friends hadn't used drugs yet at 15, and they all became heroin addicts, that means that the rest of us who were imprisoned in the Seed at 14 or 15 (or whatever) would probably have become heroin addicts too?

Do you get that when he talks about the "REAL PEOPLE" (the all-caps being his own) he knew, he just might be implying that our own experiences of abuse were insubstantial and negligible in comparison, not as "REAL" as the sufferings of his dear departed friends? Do you get that he's pulling out a sacred cow here, and trying to slap us around a bit with his sanctimonious grief?

Do you get that all this heavy handedness was rather Seed-like?

And do you get that his subsequent raving maniacal all-caps abusive post was the real John, shrieking in impotent fury, because people weren't buying his latest act?

Greg, I am disappointed in you, my friend.

I will acknowledge (though it's always dangerous to concede ANYTHING when you're around Seedlings) that I've been a little schizophrenic in terms of regretting some of my harsh language, apologizing for it, then being harsh again. Here's why that has happened. I have a belief system that says it's never really okay to speak unkindly. But that belief system is sorely tested by the likes of unrepentant abuser assholes like John Underwood. And so no more apologies. I make you that promise.

And Anonymous, for God's sake, use your name already. What's up with that? What are you afraid of?

[Anonymous]

marcwordsmith is your real name?