Author Topic: ex employees  (Read 16433 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2006, 02:31:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-03 08:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I went there.  My intake was on Nov. 21st, 2003.  If anyone wants to talk about the old days when boot camp was hard e-mail me @ [email protected]

"


eidsor,
just some questions....werent you the cadet with all the drama that never really did anything?  werent you the one that got all of us smoked because you would fake injuries?  yeah...bootcamp was hard back then...but only when all the rest of us worked and got smoked almost everyday because of you.  you couldnt handle pt.  you were a pussy.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2006, 08:57:00 AM »
Wow.  Interesting that you blame some other kid for you "getting smoked" instead of blaming your parents and Thayer.

One of the perspectives that comes from growing up and being an authority figure and being a parent is that you learn how very much of whatever goes on the various parents and other authority figures are responsible for.

Kids blame themselves when Mom or Dad gets in a bad mood and yells at them.

Kids blame themselves when their parents divorce.  They blame themselves when their parents beat, molest, or rape them.

Kids blame other kids, in group settings, for what parents or other authority figures do to the group, and when the parents or authority figures lay blame for something the parent or authority figure chooses to do (like "smoking" a group) on some particular kid, the other kids never question it.

Kids have a tremendous capacity for self-blame, and blame of the other kids, because it is incredibly psychologically threatening for a child to contemplate that the adults running his life are imperfect.

Intellectually, a child will know parents or other authority figures are fallible---but they'll know it only as a fact to repeat back by rote when asked, "I'm not perfect and I make mistakes, you know that, right?" or, "Nobody's perfect, not even adults, you know that, right?"

Kids will repeat back that they know that nobody's perfect.

In practice, however, kids hugely overestimate the times when something bad is the kid's fault versus how often something bad that happens to the kid is an adult's fault.

The reason is that if the kid (or another kid) is a screwup, the kid can presumably count on the adults in charge to protect them from any real harm----so the kid is safe.  On the other hand, if the grownups running a kid's life are screwups or malicious, the kid's in danger, constantly, of death or disability---his fate hangs on that adult screwup's next bad decision.

When kids get abused, the reason their grownup selves tend to screw up and repeat the cycle and abuse the children *they* are in authority over is because that new adult's perspective of their own childhood is frozen into a child's perspective of the events.

I had a friend who was raped when she was five, along with a five year old friend of hers, by her twelve year old brother and his friends.  In her 40's, she still viewed that as consensual sex---until I shook her out of it by saying, "Jane, with anyone else, not you, would you call someone having sex with a five year old consensual, or rape?  With anyone else, not you, would you say a five year old child could possibly give consent to sex?"  She said no, she started sobbing, she got into counseling, and that was the day she started recovering from that rape.

Even in the most extreme cases of abuse, the abuse victim's perception of the abuse stays frozen in the perspective of the child that he was when it happened----until treatment, when either through competent, mainstream therapy or self-help books, or counseling from a friend, the adult goes back and looks at what happened through adult eyes as if they were looking at some other parent and some other kid---not themselves---and uses adult maturity and understanding to re-evaluate events.

It isn't right, ever, for an adult to punish one kid for something that kid didn't do---especially for something the adult knows full well some other kid did.  Adults who do that are screwups.

The military may sometimes do collective punishment to build unit integrity, but they do it to adults who have knowingly volunteered for that and been screened for being mentally and physically healthy.  They don't do it to kids.

It is no other kid's fault that some adult screwup smoked you.  It never was that other kid's fault.  When some adult told you that was the other kid's fault, the adult was screwing up.  Again.

It's no other kid's fault, nor is it your fault, that your parents screwed up and put you in the care of adult screwups.

Some adults are functional, healthy, responsible people who still make mistakes, but are competent enough as adults to be trusted to care for a child.

There are kids who are screwups.  Some grow out of it, and some don't.  There are people who grow up to be irresponsible adult screwups with lousy judgment.  Some adult screwups have bad judgment, some are sadistic bullies, some are both.

Adult screwups usually still have functional reproductive organs and frequently have children.  Jobs as staff in places like Thayer pay really sucky wages and nobody but adult screwups are going to take those jobs.  Good therapists work in places with better pay and working conditions, and still help some very damaged kids.  People who aren't screwups work at jobs that pay better than that, or have better working conditions.  

The few adults who are competent and have better job options (better wages, better working conditions) who choose to work with difficult kids aren't going to work at a bottom-of-the-barrel shithole like Thayer.

Most of them are locals, right?  These are adult screwups---big fish in a tiny pond---who will tell you they have better options but are just dedicated.  It's a lie.  They don't have options that will pay better and still let them be a big fish in the pond with lots of control and power over a very powerless, captive set of victims.

You didn't get "smoked" because of what some other kid did.  You got smoked because the adult in charge of you was a loser who was either enjoying the power *or* had the very poor judgment to participate in something as stupid as inflicting collective punishment on children.

Accept it---your parents made the gross judgment error of putting you in the care of some colossal losers.  You may have needed help straightening yourself out---but you needed it from people who weren't clueless losers.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2006, 02:03:00 PM »
I was a Female Sergeant and one of the first people to quit Thayer and not get fired.  I left in December of 03.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2006, 02:11:00 PM »
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On 2006-02-12 11:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I was a Female Sergeant and one of the first people to quit Thayer and not get fired.  I left in December of 03.  "


Why did you quit?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2006, 09:14:00 PM »
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On 2006-02-08 05:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Wow.  Interesting that you blame some other kid for you "getting smoked" instead of blaming your parents and Thayer.



One of the perspectives that comes from growing up and being an authority figure and being a parent is that you learn how very much of whatever goes on the various parents and other authority figures are responsible for.



Kids blame themselves when Mom or Dad gets in a bad mood and yells at them.



Kids blame themselves when their parents divorce.  They blame themselves when their parents beat, molest, or rape them.



Kids blame other kids, in group settings, for what parents or other authority figures do to the group, and when the parents or authority figures lay blame for something the parent or authority figure chooses to do (like "smoking" a group) on some particular kid, the other kids never question it.



Kids have a tremendous capacity for self-blame, and blame of the other kids, because it is incredibly psychologically threatening for a child to contemplate that the adults running his life are imperfect.



Intellectually, a child will know parents or other authority figures are fallible---but they'll know it only as a fact to repeat back by rote when asked, "I'm not perfect and I make mistakes, you know that, right?" or, "Nobody's perfect, not even adults, you know that, right?"



Kids will repeat back that they know that nobody's perfect.



In practice, however, kids hugely overestimate the times when something bad is the kid's fault versus how often something bad that happens to the kid is an adult's fault.



The reason is that if the kid (or another kid) is a screwup, the kid can presumably count on the adults in charge to protect them from any real harm----so the kid is safe.  On the other hand, if the grownups running a kid's life are screwups or malicious, the kid's in danger, constantly, of death or disability---his fate hangs on that adult screwup's next bad decision.



When kids get abused, the reason their grownup selves tend to screw up and repeat the cycle and abuse the children *they* are in authority over is because that new adult's perspective of their own childhood is frozen into a child's perspective of the events.



I had a friend who was raped when she was five, along with a five year old friend of hers, by her twelve year old brother and his friends.  In her 40's, she still viewed that as consensual sex---until I shook her out of it by saying, "Jane, with anyone else, not you, would you call someone having sex with a five year old consensual, or rape?  With anyone else, not you, would you say a five year old child could possibly give consent to sex?"  She said no, she started sobbing, she got into counseling, and that was the day she started recovering from that rape.



Even in the most extreme cases of abuse, the abuse victim's perception of the abuse stays frozen in the perspective of the child that he was when it happened----until treatment, when either through competent, mainstream therapy or self-help books, or counseling from a friend, the adult goes back and looks at what happened through adult eyes as if they were looking at some other parent and some other kid---not themselves---and uses adult maturity and understanding to re-evaluate events.



It isn't right, ever, for an adult to punish one kid for something that kid didn't do---especially for something the adult knows full well some other kid did.  Adults who do that are screwups.



The military may sometimes do collective punishment to build unit integrity, but they do it to adults who have knowingly volunteered for that and been screened for being mentally and physically healthy.  They don't do it to kids.



It is no other kid's fault that some adult screwup smoked you.  It never was that other kid's fault.  When some adult told you that was the other kid's fault, the adult was screwing up.  Again.



It's no other kid's fault, nor is it your fault, that your parents screwed up and put you in the care of adult screwups.



Some adults are functional, healthy, responsible people who still make mistakes, but are competent enough as adults to be trusted to care for a child.



There are kids who are screwups.  Some grow out of it, and some don't.  There are people who grow up to be irresponsible adult screwups with lousy judgment.  Some adult screwups have bad judgment, some are sadistic bullies, some are both.



Adult screwups usually still have functional reproductive organs and frequently have children.  Jobs as staff in places like Thayer pay really sucky wages and nobody but adult screwups are going to take those jobs.  Good therapists work in places with better pay and working conditions, and still help some very damaged kids.  People who aren't screwups work at jobs that pay better than that, or have better working conditions.  



The few adults who are competent and have better job options (better wages, better working conditions) who choose to work with difficult kids aren't going to work at a bottom-of-the-barrel shithole like Thayer.



Most of them are locals, right?  These are adult screwups---big fish in a tiny pond---who will tell you they have better options but are just dedicated.  It's a lie.  They don't have options that will pay better and still let them be a big fish in the pond with lots of control and power over a very powerless, captive set of victims.



You didn't get "smoked" because of what some other kid did.  You got smoked because the adult in charge of you was a loser who was either enjoying the power *or* had the very poor judgment to participate in something as stupid as inflicting collective punishment on children.



Accept it---your parents made the gross judgment error of putting you in the care of some colossal losers.  You may have needed help straightening yourself out---but you needed it from people who weren't clueless losers.







"


i'm not into all those psychology crap...when eidsor did what she should have, we didnt get smoked and when she didnt, we did.  it was her fault, not my parents, or stupid loser adults...it was cheryl eidsor.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2006, 09:19:00 PM »
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On 2006-02-12 18:14:00, Anonymous wrote:


i'm not into all those psychology crap...when eidsor did what she should have, we didnt get smoked and when she didnt, we did.  it was her fault, not my parents, or stupid loser adults...it was cheryl eidsor."


Nope, it was your parents fault and Thayer's fault.  Period.  Thayer created that hellish environment and your parents chose to abdicate their responsibilities over to a bunch of power hungry hacks.
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Offline tlcrescue

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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2006, 02:45:00 PM »
sorry, but sometimes it is other cadets fault that people get smoked.  When my son was there, he had a bladder problem, requiring him to urinate frequently.  But, they don't allow very many bathroom breaks while in cadet status (dont know about higher levels). When he would ask to go, they would tell him he could go, but that when he returned from the bathroom, the rest of the cadets would get a 2 hour smoke session while he stood by and watched.  My son wasn't going to let that happen, so rather than go to the bathroom and allow the other cadets be punished for him going, he chose to urinate on himself, which, of course, led to him getting smoked instead.  Some people may not have chosen that route, they may have chosen to go to the bathroom (or whatever their current circumstance was).
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2006, 02:50:00 PM »
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On 2006-02-13 11:45:00, tlcrescue wrote:

"sorry, but sometimes it is other cadets fault that people get smoked.  When my son was there, he had a bladder problem, requiring him to urinate frequently.  But, they don't allow very many bathroom breaks while in cadet status (dont know about higher levels). When he would ask to go, they would tell him he could go, but that when he returned from the bathroom, the rest of the cadets would get a 2 hour smoke session while he stood by and watched.  My son wasn't going to let that happen, so rather than go to the bathroom and allow the other cadets be punished for him going, he chose to urinate on himself, which, of course, led to him getting smoked instead.  Some people may not have chosen that route, they may have chosen to go to the bathroom (or whatever their current circumstance was)."


How do you figure that would be the other cadets' fault?  That's Thayer's policy and the staff enforcing it.  No way in hell that the other cadets have ANY control over that.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2006, 11:35:00 PM »
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i'm not into all those psychology crap...when eidsor did what she should have, we didnt get smoked and when she didnt, we did. it was her fault, not my parents, or stupid loser adults...it was cheryl eidsor.


Simple logical question. Why should you have been smoked for another cadet's misbehavior? You can never be responsible for another's actions. The reason is solely that those in charge said so. That is all. Nothing more to it. The 'group consequences rule' is just a stupid rule and the only people who buy it are stupid people, or those with a sadistic agenda. It does not help any individual grow. It only helps to break an individual's will.

Here's a news flash. 'Smoking' children is flat out child abuse. Period. No exceptions. No excuses. No responsible adult would ever engage in this sort of behavior.
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Offline tlcrescue

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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2006, 09:33:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-13 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-02-13 11:45:00, tlcrescue wrote:


"sorry, but sometimes it is other cadets fault that people get smoked.  When my son was there, he had a bladder problem, requiring him to urinate frequently.  But, they don't allow very many bathroom breaks while in cadet status (dont know about higher levels). When he would ask to go, they would tell him he could go, but that when he returned from the bathroom, the rest of the cadets would get a 2 hour smoke session while he stood by and watched.  My son wasn't going to let that happen, so rather than go to the bathroom and allow the other cadets be punished for him going, he chose to urinate on himself, which, of course, led to him getting smoked instead.  Some people may not have chosen that route, they may have chosen to go to the bathroom (or whatever their current circumstance was)."




How do you figure that would be the other cadets' fault?  That's Thayer's policy and the staff enforcing it.  No way in hell that the other cadets have ANY control over that."


Yes, apparently that is Thayer's policy.  However, the cadet still DOES have a choice as I clearly pointed out above.  My son had a CHOICE to either go to the bathroom and allow the other cadet's to be smoked, or to urinate on himself and subject only himself to being smoked.  When other cadet's get smoked because of the behavior of one cadet, that is a choice, the cadet that incurred the behavior that resulted in the "smoking session" had a choice.  Now, that is not to say I agree with their smoking session policy, I personally think it is ridiculous, but regardless it is still a choice.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2006, 12:06:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-14 06:33:00, tlcrescue wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-02-13 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2006-02-13 11:45:00, tlcrescue wrote:



"sorry, but sometimes it is other cadets fault that people get smoked.  When my son was there, he had a bladder problem, requiring him to urinate frequently.  But, they don't allow very many bathroom breaks while in cadet status (dont know about higher levels). When he would ask to go, they would tell him he could go, but that when he returned from the bathroom, the rest of the cadets would get a 2 hour smoke session while he stood by and watched.  My son wasn't going to let that happen, so rather than go to the bathroom and allow the other cadets be punished for him going, he chose to urinate on himself, which, of course, led to him getting smoked instead.  Some people may not have chosen that route, they may have chosen to go to the bathroom (or whatever their current circumstance was)."







How do you figure that would be the other cadets' fault?  That's Thayer's policy and the staff enforcing it.  No way in hell that the other cadets have ANY control over that."




Yes, apparently that is Thayer's policy.  However, the cadet still DOES have a choice as I clearly pointed out above.  My son had a CHOICE to either go to the bathroom and allow the other cadet's to be smoked, or to urinate on himself and subject only himself to being smoked.  When other cadet's get smoked because of the behavior of one cadet, that is a choice, the cadet that incurred the behavior that resulted in the "smoking session" had a choice.  Now, that is not to say I agree with their smoking session policy, I personally think it is ridiculous, but regardless it is still a choice."

its true...i was there and thats how it works.  when this girl first got there, she didnt want to do anything and and so she chose to sit around and watch us get smoked.  we were running laps around her and she didnt even care until another girl threatened her in the showers.  then she straightened up.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2006, 07:27:00 AM »
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On 2006-02-14 06:33:00, tlcrescue My son had a CHOICE to either go to the bathroom and allow the other cadet's to be smoked, or to urinate on himself and subject only himself to being smoked.


That's not a choice. At all.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2006, 04:59:00 PM »
O.k. I think this is lame with you two arguing about this...How bout this, your both right.  
A cadet is put into a place by thier parents without a choice. (so that makes it the parents fault.) The smoke sessions are orginized by TLC. (so that makes it TLC's fault)The cadet could not control the situation, so thus the parents and TLC are to blame. We see your piont.
On the other hand when the cadet is placed in that situation they then have a limited number of options but then agian there are options still the same. so they make a CHOICE They can do what they are told and deal. Or they disobey and get everyone else smoked until they deside to participate.
So all in all it is everyone's fault.
The parents for sending them their in the first place. TLC's for making up the stupid rules. And then the Cadet's for not following them. No matter how unreasonable they may be.
And by the way I would rather pee on myself then get everyone else smoked and be hated by the intire bootcamp...being hated in that invirnment is not the wisest place to be.
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Offline cadet_cheung

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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2006, 06:25:00 AM »
we only went to the bathroom like 6 times a day and drink like 4 shitload canteens of water, majority of the girls pee-d on themselves anyways and at the point we'd rather pee on ourselves then get everyone smoked, it was like they were all you got there. Oh yea those brown couches and stupid cushions with owls on them( if you still had them) were pee-d on by god knows how many people.
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Offline tlcrescue

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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2006, 10:01:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-02-13 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-02-13 11:45:00, tlcrescue wrote:


"sorry, but sometimes it is other cadets fault that people get smoked.  When my son was there, he had a bladder problem, requiring him to urinate frequently.  But, they don't allow very many bathroom breaks while in cadet status (dont know about higher levels). When he would ask to go, they would tell him he could go, but that when he returned from the bathroom, the rest of the cadets would get a 2 hour smoke session while he stood by and watched.  My son wasn't going to let that happen, so rather than go to the bathroom and allow the other cadets be punished for him going, he chose to urinate on himself, which, of course, led to him getting smoked instead.  Some people may not have chosen that route, they may have chosen to go to the bathroom (or whatever their current circumstance was)."




How do you figure that would be the other cadets' fault?  That's Thayer's policy and the staff enforcing it.  No way in hell that the other cadets have ANY control over that."


yes, it is apparently their policy.  but as i clearly stated, the cadet (my son) had a "choice" he could go to the bathroom allowing the others to be smoked, or he could urinate on himself, resulting in himself being smoked.  That is a CHOICE he made.  So that others would not have been smoked, he chose to urinate on himself.  But, had he chose to go to the bathroom, the others would have been smoked, hence, they other cadets are being smoked because of the choice he made.  Believe me, I am in no way advocating what they did.  I do not agree with this place, and to the contrary pulled my son out after only 1 week when I realized what was going on there.  My only point is that everyone has a choice in situations.  Your choice or "action" has a reaction.

Another example is that one kid got caught stealing food while my son was there.  The result was that the whole group got smoked over it.  Had the boy chosen not to steal the food (and I am sure he was pretty hungry, or he wouldn't have stolen it), the whole group would not have been smoked.  See my point here?  I am not saying it is right, but I am saying that a smoking session can be the result of a cadet's choice they make.
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