Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
especially for Marshall, Greg,
Antigen:
I never got past the first one. You're not powerless, neither am I, nobody is. It's not the beer and crack frittering away the profit from mine and Dad's investment. It's our brother doing that, abeted by our sister. They're not powerless either.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
--- End quote ---
Thom:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-20 15:30:00, Antigen wrote:
"I never got past the first one. You're not powerless, neither am I, nobody is. It's not the beer and crack frittering away the profit from mine and Dad's investment. It's our brother doing that, abeted by our sister. They're not powerless either.
--- End quote ---
OK, hows this?
THE TWELVE STEPS (revised generic version)
1. You're not powerless, neither am I, nobody is. It's not the beer and crack frittering away the profit from mine and Dad's investment. It's our brother doing that, abeted by our sister. They're not powerless either.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater
than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our
lives over to the care of God as we understood
Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral
inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to
another human being the exact nature of our
wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove
all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed,
and became willing to make amends to them
all.
9. Made direct amends to such people
wherever possible, except when to do so
would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory
and when we were wrong promptly admitted
it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation
to improve our conscious contact with God, as
we understood Him, praying only for knowledge
of His will for us and the power to carry
that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the
result of these steps, we tried to carry this
message to addicts, and to practice these
principles in all our affairs.
Stripe:
Thom,
All I've been trying to tell you - and you keep diverting to the 12 step stuff, is that John Underwood, Lybbi, Susie, your hero Art Barker and every other person who held power and/or exercised it without regard to the ultimate consequences - every single one of "you people" at that shit-hole, mindfuck place called theseed do ABSOLUTELY bear responsibility and are accountable for the actions each of you took. Period. That's it.
To quote a "no child left behind" product: "Dude, it's not rocket surgery."
You can yank justifications for your behavior out of you ass all day long. The fact that you yank 'em out for John Underwood shows me how truly controlled you are/were by theseed. I hope the loyalty runs both ways.
The bottom line is this: People who hide behind the program regiemes and boldly claim they are not accountable for their actions are foolish and are lying to themselves. That's just my opinon. And we all know the rule about opinions, don't we?
See ya 'round. [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-09-20 16:28 ]
GregFL:
--- Quote --- I hope the loyalty runs both ways.
--- End quote ---
It doesn't. Never did and never will. "love" and "loyalty" at the seed began and ended with complete surrender and total compliance. Once even the perception of any of that stopped, you were literally kicked to the curb.
In the eyes of the Seed, Thom was a failure. So was John. In fact, John hasn't even told this story, but he ran into libby some years after leaving and tried to speak to her and she wouldn't even look at him.
Loyalty? Love? Two of the biggest lies ever told at the seed, and one of the dangers of twelve step programs in general... When you stop believing in the religion IN TOTALITY you are as good as dead , a fallen soldier. This is usually after significant personal sacrifice in the name of the group and often after substituting the group for your genetic family. There is danger in this and many people go from this point into extreme personal crisis, often leaving with no other support group and taking the misquided "steps" with them, believing they are powerless without the group and believing that they failed the group instead of seeing the truth, that the group failed them.
Thom, in answer to your question, the twelve steps are built on a foundation of error..step #1 is only true for people with severe compulsive personality disorder, not for the general population at large.
GregFL:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-20 16:19:00, Stripe wrote:
"Thom,
All I've been trying to tell you - and you keep diverting to the 12 step stuff, is that John Underwood, Lybbi, Susie, your hero Art Barker and every other person who held power and/or exercised it without regard to the ultimate consequences .... ABSOLUTELY bear responsibility and are accountable for the actions each of you took. Period. That's it.
--- End quote ---
Well, I take a slightly different opinion on that. I forgive them all in totality. I have the knowledge that for the most part, no one was malicious but just caught up in a run away train. I too did things while under the influence of the cult that I am not proud of today, but in absence of the people I directly affected coming around here and posting, I am not going to apologize to anyone for it. Hell, I did the best I could back then to get thru it.
There are certain people I would like to apologize to if I could find them, but I don't even remember their names.
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