Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
seed'70
landyh:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-20 17:51:00, tom s. wrote:
"I don't recall a Dupont or any reps from anywhere.It seems in the time between my two seed sojourns they had absorbed a lot of new members,old staffers returned,and new ones knighted.Now I recall that Mavis Was there,so that means Happy was too.There were a few entrusted from the group to lead meetings and were possibly acting staff members.Renee was a tough n.y.B,but had an enduring sense of humor.Rick and Linda were a married staff couple of mediocre temperment.Rick was pretty funny.Linda was nice.Charley Oats appeared to be deeply sincere about learning human nature and discussing his lifes' mistakes in those terms.He was a great group leader and a tough staff member.He had a wiley way about him as though the nature of true deviousness was awash in his system and an incredibly believable infectious smile.His eyes twinkled when he did grin,but I could not pinpoint the something in myself that distrusted him.There was an indescribeable edge he had or exuded that perhaps not everyone picked up on.That feeling always made me darkly aware of his presence.He had his heart grabbed by Darlene who was just as deeply sly and a discussion leader and staffer of rank.She was tough and perhaps fair and reminded me of howdy doody-red hair-freckles-howdys'face-what can I say.I heard her and Charley got married.I even heard that they went and shot up together.I can't even imagine what that would have done to their relationship.There was a Maureen also.There was this young lady named Donna who by her good nature alone I think slid quietly into the upper echelon.We were all singing "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling"led by Art of course,and he was looking through the crowd inquisitively like someone trying to pinpoint a bacon-cheeseburger with their nose-and I realized what he was searching for.Quite a few of us caught on.It was the unmistakeable voice of an Irish Angel.My god what a voice.Art asked her if she wouldn't mind singing it for us all alone and she obliged.I gotta tell you I had goosebumps and tears!She was tall with dark hair and a very kind face and a nice disposition.I would love to hear her sing again.I believe she became a staff member,but I bet it was too strenuous or should I say her strength probably overcame the piousness necessary to continue in that mode.I draw a blank on other staffers but I know they were there. "
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Its funny I remember the little devious smile of Charlie but as nine year old kid i idealized him and he was always real good to me. I am a little mixed up was renee the little bitty junkie prostitute with really long hair or am I mixing her up with Libby?
Antigen:
This is fascinating stuff! Thanks for posting it. The way you describe it, it seems like it started out w/o Art being the big goomba. Is that right? Were these other people more like peers in the beginning?
He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
James Burgh 1774
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landyh:
--- Quote ---On 2005-11-22 19:11:00, Antigen wrote:
"This is fascinating stuff! Thanks for posting it. The way you describe it, it seems like it started out w/o Art being the big goomba. Is that right? Were these other people more like peers in the beginning?He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
James Burgh 1774
"
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Peers of Art or of us? I think Hap and Mavis felt like they were part of the leadership yet they related to the group and were in that sense peers. Still it was clear that Art was the vision and leader none the less but Hap and Mavis were mature self thinking adults who worked with Art I felt not for him. And Art at least came across as a vessal for this important work rather than a despotic individual. No doubt it was his vision. But the vision that was his i understood to be motivated by the intolerance within AA that goes on to this day to let people describe there experience with drugs. Another difference was that there were so many adults in the early program. Hardcore users even bikers and such. No very young kids at all really. So to me and I know some argue about the gateway theory but at least the collective experience of those early members reflected that they to a person everyone had started with pot and or alcohol. No question that alcohol led me to a point even after two rounds at the seed to shooting coke and then heroin. Thank God alcohol kept me so broke and busy for a while that I never got too serious about it. Funny too I gave up pot long before my drinking was addressed. I think the peer pressure theory started to evolve out of the idea that it was peer pressure that got us into our problems and just it could in the reverse. For some it did and for some it did not and for some like me a little of both. I think I digressed a little from your point of interest but I guess this is just what one little boy saw and how he understood it.
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-11-22 20:34:00, landyh wrote:
And Art at least came across as a vessal for this important work rather than a despotic individual.
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All despots see themselves as the vessal of some vision or other.
--- Quote ---So to me and I know some argue about the gateway theory but at least the collective experience of those early members reflected that they to a person everyone had started with pot and or alcohol.
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But the inverse isn't true. Most people who use any kind of psychotropics do not move on to harder drugs. If that were true, around half of my highschool graduating class would have been deadinsaneorinjail years ago. Yours?
I bet they all drank coca-cola and smoked cigaretts, too? Could those be the cause? I'm reducing this to the absurd, I know; but to make a point. A lot of things can play into someone having trouble w/ hard drugs. But pot doesn't seem to be one of them, except by way of venue.
When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).
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landyh:
--- Quote ---On 2005-11-22 20:58:00, Antigen wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-11-22 20:34:00, landyh wrote:
And Art at least came across as a vessal for this important work rather than a despotic individual.
--- End quote ---
All despots see themselves as the vessal of some vision or other.
--- Quote ---
So to me and I know some argue about the gateway theory but at least the collective experience of those early members reflected that they to a person everyone had started with pot and or alcohol.
--- End quote ---
But the inverse isn't true. Most people who use any kind of psychotropics do not move on to harder drugs. If that were true, around half of my highschool graduating class would have been deadinsaneorinjail years ago. Yours?
I bet they all drank coca-cola and smoked cigaretts, too? Could those be the cause? I'm reducing this to the absurd, I know; but to make a point. A lot of things can play into someone having trouble w/ hard drugs. But pot doesn't seem to be one of them, except by way of venue.
When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).
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"
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I agree with you actually I just was expressing how it made sense to me then in light of those I met with serious problems and there experience. And for me it was letting my guard down one worse thing at a time but nothing was ever so pervasive for me as alcohol. But when you read my story in the other thread I think you will better understand that my gateway was escape. In AA I can almost invariably fein a sort of awareness regarding the women I meet there in that damn near all of them got there through some of same cause and effect relationships in there life that effected me. I can see it a mile away usually so its not intirely feined yet the problem is so pervasive amongst serious addicts of any kind that yours odds are on to guess right. I'm still dazzling with my pyschic powers :lol:
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