Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
The Oxford Group
GregFL:
So again, where are the twelve steps listed in the book of James?
Thom:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-29 01:00:00, GregFL wrote:
"I thought we were talking about your belief in the divinity of the 12 steps...
"
--- End quote ---
The word divinity refers to any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force. The twelve steps are words written on paper, and as such do not fit the definition. I do, however, believe the 12 steps are divinely inspired, that is to say, that they were given to us by God, as a guide to living a life in fellowship with Him, and, where possible, at peace with our fellow humans. Can we move on now?
Thom:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-29 00:07:00, GregFL wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-09-28 20:54:00, Thom wrote:
"
Greg, as you know, there are no records of attendance kept in AA, thus, no way of accurately gauging a percentage."
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AA has done a study, as well as several independent firms. "
--- End quote ---
Well, if you already have information on this question, why are you asking me?
Thom:
--- Quote ---On 2005-09-29 01:07:00, GregFL wrote:
"So again, where are the twelve steps listed in the book of James?
"
--- End quote ---
So, again, 'The 12 Steps' have their roots in the Book of James. This James was the Brother of Jesus. AA, Oxford Group, Buchman, etc. didn't invent this stuff. It's a God thing. Please note the emphasis on roots. That was my original statement before you started torturing it.
not listed there. concepts are laid out there for believers. The Bible is not intended for, nor can it be accurately interpreted by a non-believer, who does not have the indwelling of The Holy Spirit for guidance. You have shown yourself to be at best skeptical of the Bible, so why are we even having this discussion? If you sincerely want these answers, I suggest you talk to a Pastor or Priest. They are more knowledgable than I am. I'm done with this discussion.
GregFL:
and again, the book of james was not credibly written by the brother of Jesus, was not even admitted into the bible until the 4th century, is likely the work of an anonymous writer posing as James, the brother of Jesus, and was likely written way after any reasonable amount of time any brother of Jesus could have survived. All one would have to do is look at legitimate historical resources (not religious ones) that have studied the historocity of The Book of James.
Further, there is no reference at all to the 12 steps in the book of james, rather, there is a backward searching attempt at matching the steps to some of the writings. Anyone practicing the first step would clearly see this.
Finaly, your admission that you feel the 12 steps are divinly inspired shines a spotlight on the fact that AA is not much more than a thinly veiled religion, and as such forcing people to attend is a clear violation of the Constitution of the United States. But Thom, step away..it is YOUR right under the consitution to do so.
Yes, we can now move on, unless you have something more.
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