Author Topic: powerlessness  (Read 3250 times)

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Offline shady grove

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powerlessness
« on: September 15, 2005, 09:02:00 AM »
I have a question for those of you who use drugs. I guess mostly the illegal ones and alcohol:

How do you have power over the use of these chemicals?

I realize that this will seem like an absurd and possibly insulting question. I mean it in the most humble way, though.

I am looking for discussions on this free of rhetoric, metaphor or analogies.

Thanks
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dragonfly

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powerlessness
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2005, 09:22:00 AM »
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dragonfly

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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 09:44:00 AM »
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Offline Froderik

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powerlessness
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 11:40:00 AM »
If we were to translate sg's question substituting "have power over" with "not let it become a problem" then it becomes an easy question to answer -- I just don't drink (or whatever) if I don't want to. Simple - no magic involved, no special formula.

For instance, I decided about a month and a half ago that I was going to quit drinking for a little while. So when the beer ran out, I simply didn't buy anymore. Well ok, maybe I 'cheated' a little...but that's the point.. I can have a beer with my bagel and not end up drinking a 12 pack if I want. I allow myself a little SLACK in that respect. The taste of that beer with the bagel was appealing so i had a little. BFD. And ftr, I haven't had any more since then (that was like a week ago) not that it really would matter..I just haven't felt like it.
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Offline Antigen

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powerlessness
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2005, 01:07:00 PM »
Well, personally, I just never bought into the powerlessness doctrine in the first place. I know from my very earliest experience w/ alcohol that it makes me drunk. And I understand from only slightly later experience that once you've had a few, you're in no position to judge just how drunk you are. So, if I'm gonna drink at all, I either do it when I won't have to drive or make any important decisions or I limit myself to two. (I'm a very tiny little woman, 2 beers followed by an hour or so of water or tea and I'm good to drive) And like Frod says. If I'm drinking too much, I just quit going to be beer store. It was easier in Florida. Here in PA you either pay bar prices or you have to buy a case at a time. So I've had to invite 3 other drunks into the house to help make that work out. But it's just a matter of understanding how the stuff effects you and planning ahead not to make an ass of yourself.

Pot doesn't present even that minimal amount of management problem. Toke if it's convienient, don't if it's not.

Opiates, I just don't like them. I'm just weird that way. I have a few good friends who have been hooked before. None of them ever have recomended that I do the same or discarded as trivial the difficulty in weening down. But that's all it is. Whether you go to meetings and fill your head w/ parables and moral imperatives or not, the deal w/ opiate addiction is that you have to ween down, get dope sick and mean then do it again. Works the same w/ or w/o the meetings. Except, of course, if you buy into the program dogma, it's all or nothing, black or white, life or death. Plus you find yourself at odds w/ people who may actually have some good advice and support for you in that regard because you're essentially not allowed to entertain the notion of taking control of your own substance use by your own will.

And, quite honestly, if I had only to choose between social contact w/ active junkies and social contact w/ militant steppers, I'm hangin' w/ the junkies, no doubt! In my experience, they're just nicer, more intellectually honest and sincere people.

The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2005, 01:32:00 PM »
Thanks guys for humoring me. I KNOW the question sounded crazy. Dragonfly, thanks for not attacking me. I just wanted to hear/read y'alls perspective without a lot of personal judgements getting thrown in. For the most part, I got that. Still alot of "you" statements, but I got a good picture.

You may not believe me, but I am sincerely trying to understand where y'all are coming from. The way many of you guys think about this issue makes as much sense to me as my way does to you. Just searching for common ground if it exists. (It may not).
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Offline webcrawler

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powerlessness
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2005, 01:54:00 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
am looking for people who survived Straight in Plymouth, Michigan. I miss a lot of people there and wonder what happened and would like to stay in touch.

dragonfly

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powerlessness
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2005, 01:56:00 PM »
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2005, 02:00:00 PM »
LSD was the most horrible thing that ever happened to me, I guess until I met straight.

Sorry, I know...off the wall comment.

Where do you suggest I go if my falsehood breaks down. Here?  :lol:
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Offline the wet noodle

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powerlessness
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2005, 02:10:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-15 10:56:00, dragonfly wrote:

"

This whole dialogue has me a little creeped out. It's like looking in to window of straight, seeing kids in there flailing away, waving at the window, "hey come on out, it's ok, it's over" and the kids look at you like your'e crazy and then share about the horrible man tempting them.
"


It makes sense that me and shady and I would creep you out with our talk about NA/AA. We have been inlvoved with 12 step meetings for years... all of our talk about the steps probably reminds you of the last time that you were exposed to discussions about the steps...in that hell hole in Springfield

I think that it is tragic that many folks will only have negative associations about NA/AA and the steps...mainly because of their experience with str8. That is yet another horrible consequence of Str8.
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Offline Antigen

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powerlessness
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2005, 02:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-15 11:10:00, the wet noodle wrote:

mainly because of their experience with str8. That is yet another horrible consequence of Str8.


[sigh] no, that's not it. My experience w/ Straight and The Seed and AA by way of my WWI age grandpa may have tipped me off to just exactly how militant this cult can be in the extreme. But it is current events that give me a negative view of the stepcult. And I've given you several examples. Now, why would you discard my answers to your question and, instead, go on believing that it's just 20+yo bitterness? I think that shows a lack of respect and intellectual honesty. And that, my friend, is one of the issues I have w/ the stepcult. Unless we mount an adequate challenge, they'll just go on compelling indoctrination through the courts and other public institutions and denying any wrongdoing on their own part; instead projecting blame on the critics.

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

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Offline the wet noodle

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powerlessness
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005, 02:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-15 11:32:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-09-15 11:10:00, the wet noodle wrote:


mainly because of their experience with str8. That is yet another horrible consequence of Str8.



[sigh] no, that's not it. My experience w/ Straight and The Seed and AA by way of my WWI age grandpa may have tipped me off to just exactly how militant this cult can be in the extreme. But it is current events that give me a negative view of the stepcult. And I've given you several examples. Now, why would you discard my answers to your question and, instead, go on believing that it's just 20+yo bitterness? I think that shows a lack of respect and intellectual honesty. And that, my friend, is one of the issues I have w/ the stepcult. Unless we mount an adequate challenge, they'll just go on compelling indoctrination through the courts and other public institutions and denying any wrongdoing on their own part; instead projecting blame on the critics.

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor


"


[sigh] what YOU do not seem to get no matter how many times WE say it is that your examples have nothing to do with AA/NA. They are examples of people using the 12 steps for their own purposes (to make $)...

For the millionth time AA/NA takes no position on ANY outside issue...and does not endorse any treatment centers...not the good ones not the bad ones... AA/NA have nothing to do with ANY treatment centers... just because a treatment center endorses AA/NA and the 12 steps does not mean that AA/NA endorses the treatment center! THERE IS A HUUUGE DIFFERENCE THAT YOU DO NOT SEEM TO COMPREHEND

AA/NA are non-proft organizations...they exist only to save lives...

Treatment centers are in the business of making $$$$$$. Thus AA/NA DO NOT ENDORE THEIR ACTIVITY!!

This conversation is useless if you canot see the difference...

Maybe you should check out what the AA/NA traditions actually SAY before you pass judgment on AA/NA because of the actions of treatment centers that are out to make a profit.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 03:50:00 PM »
That's the friggen problem here. You believers go on and on about how good and noble and harmless your religion is. And you confuse critizism of coercion and frad w/ critizism of your voluntarily hanging out w/ a bunch of other believers. And it works just as well for your religion as it does for any other.

Got a problem w/ our foreign policy as regards Israel's problems? You antisemitic, Nazi loving monster! How dare you complain about American soldiers and cash investments in Israel's intrest!!

Got a problem w/ Teen Challenge or the Rebekah and Rolloff Homes or Abundant Life Academy? You heathen! You just hate Christians, that's all.

Well, as I've said numerous times already, I don't have a problem w/ your voluntarily hanging out w/ fellow believers; doesn't matter whether it's a belief in stepcraft or a belief in fairies or angels. I have a problem w/ people being coerced to participate. If ask for my opinion on the basic dogma, I'll give it to you. And you DID ask! If you don't want my opinion, well, don't ask for it. Simple, really.

But your postulate that coerced participation in stepcraft programs has nothing to do w/ stepcraft is pattently rediculous.


[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce



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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2005, 06:14:00 PM »
Antigen

I don't think you are intellectually dishonest, unitelligent or mean. I DO think that you are simply misinformed about this issue.
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Offline Antigen

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powerlessness
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005, 06:21:00 PM »
How am I misinformed? What, specifically, have I got wrong?

As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people.   On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
--H.L. Mencken

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes