My apology

[Dr. Miller Newton]

Sorry, forgot to log in. Ruthie was just bitching at me about it right now as a matter of fact & distracting me as I type. :flame:

[Anonymous]

i'm hot!

[Anonymous]

andi'm thirsty! :sad:

[Anonymous]

hey, Kool-Aid!!!!

[Dr. Miller Newton]

maybe you think if you work your program the anxiety will go away.

>>>>>>>> :tup:

[Anonymous]

Anon wrote
" i don't hate you one bit, jeezus, why'd you think that had any hate in it?"

I do not think that you hate ME. I think that you hate STRA8 (as I do). I just strive to reach a point to where I can forgive Str8 and NO LONGER hate them for what they did to me. That is what I meant by hate perpetuating hate. As long as I hate str8 (which I most certainly still do) then Str8 wins.

As for wanting to call you and discuss your post...well...you can smoke up to deal with your feelings...I personally have found a different way... hell maybe YOUR way is better...who knows...

Peace

[the wet noodle]

damn this silly system...that last post was me again  :smile:

[the wet noodle]

If I wasn't an addict I would smoke up and drink every chance I could...I wish like hell I wasn't an addict...then I could get high 5 times a day without any consequences :cool:

[Anonymous]

high! :wave:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-12 07:32:00, the wet noodle wrote:

"If I wasn't an addict I would smoke up and drink every chance I could...I wish like hell I wasn't an addict...then I could get high 5 times a day without any consequences :cool:



"

You're not an addict! Just because Straight, and later the Stepcult, told you this, doesn't make it true!!  Whether they said it once, or whether they said it a million times (gee, which do you think it was?), does NOT make it true!  Smoke up, have a beer, enjoy yourself, get high!  It won't hurt you.  Be strong.  Believe in yourself, not some kooked-out, self-limiting rule book written by psychotic Nazi sympathizers as part of the assimilation process for their CULT!  The MYTH of the "disease" of chemical dependency is the cornerstone upon which all of the other LIES of the Stepcult rest!  Free yourself from the vampiric clutches of Bill W. and all of his imps by getting high.  It won't hurt you.  I promise.

[shady grove]

Sorry anon but this last post is just plain fucking arrogant. You simply can't know that noodle isin't an addict. Noodle says he is, period. This is a reality to him and it's nobody else's fucking business. And i just haven't read enough additional information for me to doubt him. So why would you?

Most of the addicts I know that have been drug free for a long time don't continue to identify with addiction simply b/c people in meetings tell them they are addicted. Please, how insulting.

From my own experience I know that it would be rare for someone in a meeting to identify another person in a meeting as an addict. That's just not how it works...there'd be no reason to do this.  People who are not addicts simply don't belong in meetings. People who are unsure are welcome to listen. The program works b/c of "one addict helping another". Convincing a non-addict that they are an addict would be pointless.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-13 19:23:00, shady grove wrote:

"Sorry anon but this last post is just plain fucking arrogant. You simply can't know that noodle isin't an addict. Noodle says he is, period. This is a reality to him and it's nobody else's fucking business. And i just haven't read enough additional information for me to doubt him. So why would you?

It's my "conscious contact" with "God as I understand Him".  He told me Noodle is NOT an addict, and suggested that Noodle start getting high again.

Most of the addicts I know that have been drug free for a long time don't continue to identify with addiction simply b/c people in meetings tell them they are addicted. Please, how insulting.

No, but the lie began somewhere, most likely a Stepcult indoctrination center, I mean, "meeting".  I can definitely state that neither you nor Noodle, or anybody else who is blinded by Stepcraft dogma, is "powerless over drugs".  They have never been "powerless over drugs", either.  Granted, they may have made poor decisions at some point or other, but they were NEVER "powerless over drugs".  To believe that they were "powerless" is the first breach in the levee that lets the flood of lies from the Stepcult rush in, drowning sanity and even common sense.

From my own experience I know that it would be rare for someone in a meeting to identify another person in a meeting as an addict. That's just not how it works...there'd be no reason to do this.  People who are not addicts simply don't belong in meetings. People who are unsure are welcome to listen. The program works b/c of "one addict helping another". Convincing a non-addict that they are an addict would be pointless."

Yet they continue to do it as a matter of course!  How else have they managed to swell their ranks?  It is a fallacious concept, a lie, a fib, an old wive's tale, bullshit, completely untrue, an unsubstantiated rumor, a falsehood, jive talk, a myth, YET THEY CONTINUE TO EMBRACE IT!!!  There is no such thing as "an addict" if you are using the Stepcult definition of one---they simply do not exist.  This is because their definition rests on the assumption that an "addict" is someone who is "powerless over drugs", a concept so obviously bankrupt of truth that it is a flaming wonder that anyone ever bought into it, WITHOUT having it drilled into their head by some Stepcult-dogma-spouting, would-be "savior", hell bent on saving people from themselves by drawing them into the fold of the brainwashed.

[Anonymous]

I do not have to "forgive" Straight, or perform any other mental contortions. Anger is a perfectly acceptable emotion to feel, as are rage and frustration in the face of such crimes. especially since they have not yet been addressed and reparated. That's life. I'm pissed at the Feds, too, at that smirking little turd in the White House, etc. This anger and disgust makes me a better public speaker, it makes me read stuff and talk to people and set up web forums and so on.

I would not even describe my feeling about Straight as "hate". That is too elementary.

Straight is not even a person. How can I forgive an institution?

Look, my point is, you guys are so uncomfortable with anger. Get pissed at what they did to you. If you want to forgive someone for real, go talk to that Staff person who is the bane of your existence in your mind. Clear it up. You might find they are still a jerkoff and still hurting children. You might find they have no sympathy, or you might find they are completely okay talking to you, and will set the story right about what Straight was doing to you, and accept "blame" - another word that is unfairly discriminated against.

I am saying, you are giving up a huge source of energy and power by giving up anger and other "negative" feelings. I can't blame you for not wanting to feel them and know where they come from. That is some intense history.

Maybe you are afraid that if you keep feeling these feelings you will go crazy or hurt someone. No, you will grieve. Under the rage about being beltlooped is intense humiliation and helplessness. Under the anger towards our parents, there is devastation and grief. They signed you over to be abused. I understand people want to have their families back. This should never be at the expense of the truth, at least you have to know the truth in your mind, or what you are doing by making peace is just tucking your tail, it's a lie.

I worry that some of you are "working your program". You were abused. You are under no obligation from God or anyone to "get over it". You don't get any brownie points, except maybe from other people with the same philosophy. You do not have to feel guilty for your hatred and anger.

Sometimes it's just the top of grief.

[shady grove]

Anon, I have no fucking idea what you're talking about now. Anger is cool, whatever.

I see ALOT of holes in your conspiracy theory about 12-step programs, addiction and powerlessness. I also sense your mind is made up about it, so I'm not gonna bother you about this anymore.

I AM pissed about straight. Just because I don't get high doesn't mean I love or loved straight. I have alot of serious psychopathology b/c of that place that frankly the people in NA or AA can't help me with. But I'm growing. I'm living through the pain. It's hard. And a bowl of PCP (my personal favorite drug) ain't gonna help much either. I'm tired of wiping the drool from chin.

BTW, the first step of NA is that "we admitted were powerless over our ADDICTION..." not a specific substance.

[Antigen]

No, no. Anon is absolutely right. You are not and never were powerless over your habits. You may or may not have been addicted to some substance or other or just compulsive about it w/o any physical dependency.

But you never were w/o power over your actions. None of us are. You have all of the power over what and how much of it you will do. All of us do. No one is powerless over drugs, addiction or any other volitional activity.

And I agree w/ anon. It's evil and fucked up to go around intentionally convincing people that they're powerless. And they're right about the subversive influence the step cult has in our society, especially the public sector.

Here's a good info resource on how that battle is playing out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/12-Step_Coercion_Watch/
In the United States alone more than a million people each year are forced into these programs by courts, licensing boards, and government employers.

Two federal circuit courts (Second and Seventh Circuits) and two state supreme courts (Tennessee and New York) have ruled this practice to be in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, yet the coercion continues throughout the country and also in other countries.

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous