Author Topic: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??  (Read 12086 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 05:19:25 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Magnificent"
As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.

If I remember correctly, wasn't it David Deitch that came over from Synanon to help light a fire, so to speak, under operations at Daytop? I don't think Synanon was yet recognized as a cult (back then); it was still receiving government funding and in fact, had a branch in the New York City area and, for a time, also in Connecticut.

There were a few TCs started in the metropolitan New York area in the early 60s; I might be off by a few years, but I seem to recall that Daytop was one, and Phoenix House was another. I also seem to recall that Art Barker (later of The Seed) was allegedly living in Brooklyn or the Bronx during that same time period.

Early on, either Daytop or Phoenix House, or both, worked out a deal with the city whereby men convicted of non-lethal crimes involving alcohol or drugs were given the option of doing their time at the TC instead of jail. I was wondering, do you know whether Barker was in such a situation and availed himself of TC time instead of jail-time? He was reputed to be somewhat of a rabble-rouser back then.

One last question:

    "The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time."[/list]
    Are you saying that Daytop specifically did send people down to The Seed program in Florida to help them get started? Do you know whether any other TC, e.g., Phoenix House or Synanon or Gaudenzia (Philly), or any other government programs also did so?

    thnx

    As our resident researcher, you may consider copying and pasting all pertinent self incriminating material before it is retracted from the datasphere
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

    Offline Inculcated

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    Re: Daytopic references/ program influences
    « Reply #16 on: December 05, 2009, 03:52:41 AM »
    Daytopic program influences included among other program related references as originally Posted by Awake in other threads can be viewed at the following:
    mk ultra
    How you couldn’t really “fake it” (Act as if)
    Cedu: Developing the program
    Quote
    The most comprehensive compilation of criticisms of the group movement has been presented by Howard (1970). She notes that critics have claimed that groups:
    (1) cause stirring wonderful things to happen, but the effects of these are not valid because they do not last; (2) use ridiculous jargon; (3) are pointless; . (4) invade privacy; ’ ’ (5) are anti-intellectual; (6) cheapen real emotion; (7) are guilty of phoniness; (8) lead to emotional elitism; (9) may get to be a cult; ( I 0) hypnotize their members; ( I 1 ) can be run by charlatans who are corrupt or mediocre; (12) foster sexual promiscuity; ( 13) encourage physical violence; , (14) do psychological damage; ( 15) are a hotbed of junkies and dope addicts; and (16) can be fatal.
    Stoller, the foremost systematizer of the marathon, had far too short a period to develop his views. We are told (Kovacs, 1971: 12) that Stoller wanted to develop a new kind of growth center where all these techniques [i.e., psychotherapy, gestalt exercises, body movement techniques, encounter phenomena, and the myriad other burgeoning techniques which characterize our field] could be integrated in a sequential, systematic fashion and tied together by an organized theoretical system he was developing.
    It would be unfortunate for the potential of the marathon to be unintentionally squandered by overzealous and indiscriminate application in contexts and for individuals for whom it is not appropriate. This is particularly important since there are already concerns among professionals and laymen alike about the potential intentional misuse of the marathon for devious purposes, such as brainwashing.
    Finally, despite the maelstrom of controversy, it is important to keep in mind that there is potential for future society to benefit greatly from wise use of the marathon group. It appears that we have a tornado in a bottle, wondering how we can best release its power for the good of mankind, yet fearful for its potential (Day, 1970: 423).
    Here’s some Daytopian eloquence: Eupsychia, my ass.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    “A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

    Offline Anonymous

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    Re: Daytopic references/ program influences
    « Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 06:21:07 PM »
    Quote from: "Inculcated"
    Daytopic program influences included among other program related references as originally Posted by Awake in other threads can be viewed at the following:
    mk ultra
    How you couldn’t really “fake it” (Act as if)
    Cedu: Developing the program
    Quote
    The most comprehensive compilation of criticisms of the group movement has been presented by Howard (1970). She notes that critics have claimed that groups:
    (1) cause stirring wonderful things to happen, but the effects of these are not valid because they do not last; (2) use ridiculous jargon; (3) are pointless; . (4) invade privacy; ’ ’ (5) are anti-intellectual; (6) cheapen real emotion; (7) are guilty of phoniness; (8) lead to emotional elitism; (9) may get to be a cult; ( I 0) hypnotize their members; ( I 1 ) can be run by charlatans who are corrupt or mediocre; (12) foster sexual promiscuity; ( 13) encourage physical violence; , (14) do psychological damage; ( 15) are a hotbed of junkies and dope addicts; and (16) can be fatal.
    Stoller, the foremost systematizer of the marathon, had far too short a period to develop his views. We are told (Kovacs, 1971: 12) that Stoller wanted to develop a new kind of growth center where all these techniques [i.e., psychotherapy, gestalt exercises, body movement techniques, encounter phenomena, and the myriad other burgeoning techniques which characterize our field] could be integrated in a sequential, systematic fashion and tied together by an organized theoretical system he was developing.
    It would be unfortunate for the potential of the marathon to be unintentionally squandered by overzealous and indiscriminate application in contexts and for individuals for whom it is not appropriate. This is particularly important since there are already concerns among professionals and laymen alike about the potential intentional misuse of the marathon for devious purposes, such as brainwashing.
    Finally, despite the maelstrom of controversy, it is important to keep in mind that there is potential for future society to benefit greatly from wise use of the marathon group. It appears that we have a tornado in a bottle, wondering how we can best release its power for the good of mankind, yet fearful for its potential (Day, 1970: 423).
    Here’s some Daytopian eloquence: Eupsychia, my ass.
      "AMEN"
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

    Offline Anonymous

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    Re: Daytopic references/ program influences
    « Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 06:42:21 PM »
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    Quote from: "Inculcated"
    Daytopic program influences included among other program related references as originally Posted by Awake in other threads can be viewed at the following:
    mk ultra
    How you couldn’t really “fake it” (Act as if)
    Cedu: Developing the program
    Quote
    The most comprehensive compilation of criticisms of the group movement has been presented by Howard (1970). She notes that critics have claimed that groups:
    (1) cause stirring wonderful things to happen, but the effects of these are not valid because they do not last; (2) use ridiculous jargon; (3) are pointless; . (4) invade privacy; ’ ’ (5) are anti-intellectual; (6) cheapen real emotion; (7) are guilty of phoniness; (8) lead to emotional elitism; (9) may get to be a cult; ( I 0) hypnotize their members; ( I 1 ) can be run by charlatans who are corrupt or mediocre; (12) foster sexual promiscuity; ( 13) encourage physical violence; , (14) do psychological damage; ( 15) are a hotbed of junkies and dope addicts; and (16) can be fatal.
    Stoller, the foremost systematizer of the marathon, had far too short a period to develop his views. We are told (Kovacs, 1971: 12) that Stoller wanted to develop a new kind of growth center where all these techniques [i.e., psychotherapy, gestalt exercises, body movement techniques, encounter phenomena, and the myriad other burgeoning techniques which characterize our field] could be integrated in a sequential, systematic fashion and tied together by an organized theoretical system he was developing.
    It would be unfortunate for the potential of the marathon to be unintentionally squandered by overzealous and indiscriminate application in contexts and for individuals for whom it is not appropriate. This is particularly important since there are already concerns among professionals and laymen alike about the potential intentional misuse of the marathon for devious purposes, such as brainwashing.
    Finally, despite the maelstrom of controversy, it is important to keep in mind that there is potential for future society to benefit greatly from wise use of the marathon group. It appears that we have a tornado in a bottle, wondering how we can best release its power for the good of mankind, yet fearful for its potential (Day, 1970: 423).
    Here’s some Daytopian eloquence: Eupsychia, my ass.
      "AMEN"
    Incucated, you seem to have a lot of info either stored or available to you by other means which to say, is not important to my point here I will be getting to. Were you a resident of this particular program Daytop and where were you a resident of NYC, Ct, or Fla? My interest is sparked because you seem to have a knack for staying out of verbal insults/sparring and try to give pertinent info. Not that I agree with everything "you say" personally.  You seem to have evolved into a person w/o resentment towards this institution and that is nothing short of a miracle, especially if you endured the abuse they doled out. Which I don't doubt. I took some liberties here with your posting to form these questions.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

    Offline Inculcated

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    Re: Reply to Semper Fidelis’(Always Faithful) inquiry :
    « Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 07:36:37 PM »
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    Incucated, you seem to have a lot of info either stored or available to you by other means which to say, is not important to my point here I will be getting to. Were you a resident of this particular program Daytop and where were you a resident of NYC, Ct, or Fla? .
    Yes, I was a resident in Daytop. I was in three of the NY locations following day treatment in Texas.

    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    My interest is sparked because you seem to have a knack for staying out of verbal insults/sparring and try to give pertinent info. Not that I agree with everything "you say" personally. .
    Thank you for the former.I have no such expectation of the latter.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
     You seem to have evolved into a person w/o resentment towards this institution and that is nothing short of a miracle, especially if you endured the abuse they doled out. Which I don't doubt..
    I do have strongly negative feelings toward the practices and “practitioners” of the Daytop program; that are based on my experience of them and for all that they have inflicted on others.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
     I took some liberties here with your posting to form these questions.
    I don’t find this inquiry to be off-putting or forward.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    “A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

    Offline Anonymous

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    Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
    « Reply #20 on: December 09, 2009, 08:31:48 PM »
    I have one very large question are any of these Apples that fell from the tree of (Syn.) fruitfull at all or is this whole Philosophy/ Method doomed from it's Genisis.  I am not a scholar on this matter but I have huge interest b/cuz I was a resident of these treatment centers it has been many yrs. since. My mind and heart has been extremely influenced by this entire web. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So happy to see ex-residents being this educated and helping one another. You know you would think that the phrase "ONE ADDICT HELPING ANOTHER" has finally found a true meaning and service on this site . Just some thoughts not to go on to much here. But there is something to be said for that slogan.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

    Offline Inculcated

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    Re: Reply to Semper Fi
    « Reply #21 on: December 10, 2009, 01:10:30 AM »
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    I have one very large question are any of these Apples that fell from the tree of (Syn.) fruitfull at all or is this whole Philosophy/ Method doomed from it's Genisis .
    That is a large question. Synanon derivatives operate on basic concepts that have complex consequences.  Doomed would not in my opinion apply to them per se, considering how they’ve proliferated. Unnecessarily destructive, harmful and ranging from cruel to cultic under the guise of therapeutics would in my opinion apply. There is a lot of information available for you to draw your own conclusions.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    I am not a scholar on this matter but I have huge interest b/cuz I was a resident of these treatment centers it has been many yrs. since.
    Which treatment centers were you in and where?
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    My mind and heart has been extremely influenced by this entire web. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So happy to see ex-residents being this educated and helping one another. You know you would think that the phrase "ONE ADDICT HELPING ANOTHER" has finally found a true meaning and service on this site .
    There are all kinds of people here.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    Just some thoughts not to go on to much here .
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    But there is something to be said for that slogan .

    I have an aversion to them (slogans).
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    “A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

    Offline starry-eyed pirate

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    Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
    « Reply #22 on: January 14, 2011, 07:14:47 PM »
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "Magnificent"
    As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.


    One last question:

      "The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time."[/list]
      Are you saying that Daytop specifically did send people down to The Seed program in Florida to help them get started? Do you know whether any other TC, e.g., Phoenix House or Synanon or Gaudenzia (Philly), or any other government programs also did so?

      thnx

      Magnificent, where are you ??  We need this question answered.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
      If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

      Offline SEKTO

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      Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      « Reply #23 on: January 14, 2011, 07:48:16 PM »
      Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??

      Is the Pope Catholic?

      Read You Can't Do It Alone! (by O'Brien) for more information.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      dragonfly

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      Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      « Reply #24 on: January 14, 2011, 08:21:42 PM »
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline SEKTO

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      Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      « Reply #25 on: January 15, 2011, 11:22:19 AM »
      Quote from: "dragonfly"
      Can anybody verify or speculate with accuracy about this and other links to origins of SEED?

      dragonfly:  please limit discussion pertaining to the origins of SEED, to the SEED discussion forum.  Thank you.

      viewforum.php?f=8
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline Alvasin

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      Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      « Reply #26 on: January 15, 2011, 12:04:11 PM »
      Actually what is going on?Is there anything really between them?What will happen if there is really something like that.And what effect if otherwise?
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline SEKTO

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      Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      « Reply #27 on: January 15, 2011, 12:27:33 PM »
      To whom it may concern:

      Please limit discussion pertaining to the origins of SEED, to the SEED discussion forum.  

      Thank you.

      viewforum.php?f=8
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

      Offline Inculcated

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      Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      « Reply #28 on: January 15, 2011, 01:15:53 PM »
      The OP of this thread topic (posted five years ago) started with a pertinent question about connections between Synanon and Daytop and included a follow up question about The Seed
      Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
      i was in str8 85-87 and i am wonderin' if Daytop is/was an offshoot of Synanon.  Does anyone have an answer ??  Any information anyone can provide on this subject is greatly appreciated.
      i am also wonderin' if any Daytop staff or former clients were ever on staff at the Seed in FLA.  Does anyone know ??
      Four years after that an answer by a guest poster named “Magnificent” (reads as follows) and was quoted by Dragonfly in his post which included a little mention about his attempts to contact Deitch and a question which returns to the op’s follow up question
      Quote from: "dragonfly"
      Quote from: "Magnificent"
      As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.
      I called three different offices today hoping that somebody will give me contact info for David Deitch....I'm gonna ask him myself I hope....Can anybody verify or speculate with accuracy about this and other links to origins of SEED?

      As anyone would see while reading along the thread early examples of my finding information about what Daytop begat are posted along this thread and not all about  strictly Daytop Synanon connections, but also programs started by those who had some connection to Daytop or are just Daytop with a different sign around its’ neck.

      So it’s a great question Dragonfly and while I don’t have an intention of personally undertaking trying to unearth researching that, since there are and have been many others better situated to do so, I will post any Daytop and The Seed connections  that I happen to come across about here.

      Or I will post a new thread in the Daytop forum called programs that Daytop “change agents” created, influenced or stopped by to borrow a frickin cup of sugar from one day and include it there.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
      “A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free”  Nikos Kazantzakis

      Offline SEKTO

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      Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      « Reply #29 on: January 15, 2011, 01:16:58 PM »
      To whom it may concern:

      It's very simple.

      Please limit discussion pertaining to the origins of SEED, to the SEED discussion forum.

      Thank you.
      « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »