Dr. Dan Casriel “A scream away from happiness”

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Hello,

The act "as if" philosophy had such a major role in the program that those little words had their own little placque on the diningroom wall.

Act "as if" and eventually it becomes real, know it well.

Mr./Mrs, Inculated thank you for answering my question pertaing to the whether or not Daytop did or didn't have primal scream groups in its particular brand of program.

I am also wondering if there should simply be a chapter (not thread) for this program over lap.Since I find it to be very interesting how programs all employed very similar ways of breaking down the individual and building them back up. Comparing and contrasting  the progams, examining the overlap, gives me knowledge and a better understanding of my particular program. Where these ideas of behavior  modifacation came from  etc,etc.

It doesn't make me feel as isolated , by my paticular program.

Again the" as if" philosophy really all the way from synanaon. Makes me also feel that all the riccis and other program leaders weren't all that creative, having to copy synonon,(and it is certainly appearing to really look like the mother of them all)

thanks

Matt

[Awake]

One thing about Casriel is that he stressed (in his book, A Scream Away from Happiness) the philosophy of 'as if'. If you are ('are' meaning ' your symptom is') a homosexual, addict, not-sexually flirtatious enough for your husband, etc. you are supposed to act ‘as if’ you are(n’t). This philosophy of 'as if' is not his own. I have read this exact phrasing 'as if' within Chales Diedrichs (Synanon's) philosophy also. The popularity of the Philosophy of 'As If" can be traced to ...

"Kelly, George A. (1905-1967), American psychologist. Kelly developed a theory of personality known as personal construct psychology, whose focus is on the distinctive ways in which individuals construct and reconstruct the meanings of their lives.
http://www.pcp-net.org/encyclopaedia/kelly.html"

Mmmm. I would beg to differ with you on George Kelly being the source.

Rather, I propose the construct/philosophy of "as if" came from the German Kantian scholar Hans Vaihinger (1852–1933). In fact, Vaihinger wrote the book on it, literally -- Philosophie des Als Ob (Philosophy of As If), which was published in 1911, although allegedly written in the late 1870s.

Vaihinger, in turn, credits numerous predecessors, in particular the influence of Jeremy Bentham's Theory of Fictions.

One of the more important initial conduits through which the concept of "as if" eventually reached the masses through the Human Potential movement may well have been Alfred Adler, who apparently was quite influenced by Vaihinger, though I doubt he was the only one in said position.

I also doubt that Charles Dederich read much philosophy or psychology (I could be wrong!), but I'm sure he paid some attention to what was going on at Esalen.
]

Yep it can be traced back to Vaihinger. I was supposed to get to him but was on cut and paste overload. I actually have his book, The Philosophy of AS IF: A system of the theoretical, practical, and religious fictions of mankind. But I haven't done more than skim through it, from what I can tell it is pretty interesting but not pertinent enough to put at the top of my reading list.

In his book he does reffer to Immanuel Kant often. Not sure how much that matters, but overall the 'as if'  gives perspective on Casriel I think .

“Part 3: Historical Confirmations: A. Kants use of the ‘AS IF’ Method… 271-362
1.- The Fundamental Elements in the Principal Critical Works of Kant”

[Awake]

I also thought there was another point of interest in Casriels book that I grit my teeth over. He mentions R.D. Laing and his book ‘The Divided Self: An Existential Study in Sanity and Madness’. He calls it ‘enormously interesting’ (I also think so, pretty sure you can download a copy free at scribd.com), but I think he has misinterpreted Laing, is not factually correct in defining Schizophrenia. The real point that he does not talk about here is the danger of actually producing Schizophrenia AS A RESULT of his process. He Writes…

“Many clinicians find Schizophrenia to be primarily a physical illness caused by specific metabolic enzymatic-genetic imbalances…. My clinical experience concurs with this metabolic view. I no longer accept Schizophrenics into my practice.”

I disagree. From what I can tell, the genetic connection to Schizophrenia is still unproven. The majority seem to think there is, but there is no doubt that even those who support the genetic theory also overwhelmingly agree that genetics only accounts for a pre-disposition. The actual development of Schizophrenia is a result of dissociation from what basically what amounts to repetive, bizarre, or traumatic interactions within the family system that the subject grew up in, and the symptoms are late onset usually not occurring until someone is in their 20’s.

I think it is very important to examine the Double Bind Theory of Schizophrenia to expose just how blind he appears to be concerning the dangers his groups could pose.

“TOWARDS A THEORY OF SCHIZOPHRENIA (1956) Gregory Bateson, Don D. Jackson, Jay Haley, and John Weakland

This is a report on a research project which has been formulating and testing a broad systematic view of the nature, etiology, and therapy of Schizophrenia…… We have now reached common agreement on broad outlines of a communicational theory of the origin and nature of Schizophrenia; this paper is a preliminary report on our continuing research.

THE BASE IN COMMUNICATIONS THEORY

Our approach is based on that part of communications theory which Russel called the Theory of Logical Types (Whitehead, Russel 1910). The central thesis of this theory is a discontinuity between a class and its members…..

Illustrations of how human beings handle communication involving multiple logical types can be derived from the following fields:

1.   The use of various communication modes in human communication.- Examples are play, non-play, fantasy, sacrament, metaphor, etc…..

2.   Humor.- This seems to be a way of exploring the implicit themes in thought or in a relationship.

3.   The falsification of mode-identifying signals.- …we have the artificial laugh, the manipulative situation of friendliness, the confidence trick, kidding and the like.

4.   Learning

5.   Multiple levels of learning and the logical typing of signals.- These are two inseparable sets of phenomena- inseparable because the ability to handle the multiple types of signals is itself a learned skill and therefore a function of the multiple levels of learning. According to our hypothesis, the term “ego function” (as this term is used when a schizophrenic is described as having “weak ego function” ) is precisely the process OF DISCRIMINATING COMMUNICATIONAL MODES EITHER WITHIN THE SELF OR BETWEEN THE SELF AND OTHERS. The schizophrenic exhibits weaknesses in three areas of such function: (a) He has difficulty in assigning the correct communicational modeto the messages he receives from other persons. (b) He has difficulty in assigning the correct communicational mode to those messages which he himself utters or emits non-verbally. (c) He has difficulty in assigning the correct communicational mode to his own thoughts, sensations, and perceptions.

…. Therefore we must look NOT for some specific traumatic experience in the infantile etiology but rather for characteristic sequential patterns…. The sequences MUST have this characteristic:  that from that the patient will aquire the mental habits which are exemplified in schizophrenic communication. That is to say, HE MUST LIVE IN A UNIVERSE WHERE THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS ARE SUCH THAT HIS UNCONVENTIONAL COMMUNICATION HABITS WILL BE IN SOME SENSE APPROPRIATE.
   
The hypothesis that we offer is that sequences of this kind in the external experience of the patient are responsible for the inner conflicts of Logical Typing. For such unresolvable sequences of experiences, we use the term DOUBLE BIND.

THE DOUBLE BIND

The necessary ingredients for a Double Bind situation, as we see it, are:

1.   Two or more persons.- Of these we designate one, for purposes of our definition, as the “Victim”…..

2.   Repeated experience.- …. The Double Bind structure comes to be an habitual expectation.

3.   A primary negative injunction.- This may have either of two forms: ( a) Do not do so and so or I will punish you, or (b) If you do not do so and so, I will punish you…. We assume that punishment may either be the withdrawal of love or the expression of hate or anger- or, most devastating, the kind of abandonment that results from the parent’s expression of extreme helplessness.

4.   A secondary injunction conflicting with the first at a more abstract level, and like the first enforced by punishments or signals which threaten survival.- This secondary injunction is more difficult to describe than the primary for two reasons. First, the secondary injunctionis commonly communicated to the child through non-verbal means. Posture, gesture, tone of voice, meaningful action, and the implications concealed in verbal comment may all be used to convey this more abstract message. Second, the secondary injunction may, therefore, include a wide variety of forms; for example, “Do not see this as punishment” ; “Do not see me as a punishing agent”; “Do not submit to my prohibitions”: “Do not think of what you must not do”; Do not question my love of which the primary prohibition is (or is not) an example” and so on….

5.   A tertiary negative injunction prohibiting the victim from escaping from the field.- …. It seems that in some cases the escape from the field is made impossible by certain devices which are not purely negative, e.g. capricious promises of love, and the like.

6.   Finally the complete set of ingredients is no longer necessary when the victim has learned to perceive his universe in Double Bind patterns. Almost any part of the Double Bind sequence may then be sufficient to precipitate panic or rage. The pattern of conflicting injunctions may even be taken over by hallucinatory voices.”

So this is the basic theory of Schizophrenia proposed here. It requires a social microcosm (family system) on which the victim is dependent and cannot leave, or feels he can’t leave. The victim is placed in a situation where he must make a choice, but cannot be right, or essentially the right choice is ‘crazy’ behavior in any other context. This survival behavior is repeatedly reinforced until fewer and fewer ingredients of the Double Bind are needed to trigger the defensive reaction of the Schizophrenic.

A double bind in an inescapable situation might simply be something like, “you need to do this, but you have to want to do it.” Or in the situation of a child being sent to a program a parent, or counselor may say, “I’m only doing this (punishing) because I want to help and I love you. It hurts me that you won’t accept my love.”  In the first situation the person will be punished if they don’t do it, but if they do do it they are falsely stating that they want to do it, or essentially learn to want to do it to avoid social pressure. In the second if the victim does not accept help he is rejecting love and is perceived as ungrateful. If he does he is accepting that he is supposed to see punishment as a type of loving communication.

Casriel himself recognizes the dangers of Schizophrenics in groups.

“There also can be some real dangers to having schizophrenics in groups. The intensity of the process can cause deterioration of a compensated schizophrenic condition. What’s more, the histories of some schizophrenics indicate they could be homicidal in such a setting. “

One thing I will say that is that since, in this particular book, Casriels patients were there by choice and most of the patients were into their adulthood, his setting may not qualify to contain all the ingredients of Double Binding, but transfer to the TTI and his method is a perfect match.

There is one study that is applicable to his book though. In Casriels book,” After a person has been in groups for a few weeks we usually suggest a Marathon….. Marathons usually lasted 30 hours, generally from a Friday evening to a Sunday morning, with an interlude of four or five hours on a Saturday afternoon for sleep.”

Here’s one long term study on Marathon therapy sessions.

"The Japanese Journal of Psychiatry
and Neurology, Vol. 45, No. 3, 1991

Follow-Up Study of Camp Marathon Group Psychotherapy for Adolescents with Emotional Disturbances Ryoji Nishimura, M.D., Satoshi Tsutsumi, M.D.,* Katsumi Okamura, Ph.D.,* Tatsuki Tsutsumi, M.D.* and Masahisa Nishizono, M.D. * Department of Behavioral Sciences, Faculty of Integrated Arts and Sciences, Hiroshima University, Hiroshima
*Department of Psychiatry, Fukuoka University School of Medicine, Fukuoka

Abstract: Every summer since 1972, the Department of Psychiatry at Fukuoka University has been holding the Camp Marathon Group Psychotherapy (MGP) for adolescents with emotional disturbances. This time we conducted a follow-up survey on 114 camp attendees from 1978 to 1985. Questionnaires were mailed out and we received 56 replies, that is a response rate of 49.1%. The average observation period of the follow- up was 4 years. The results were as follows: Thirty-six cases or 64.3% were making satisfactory progress at the time of the survey. Eight or 14.3% showed no change or showed worsening conditions. Seven or 12.5% cases developed into schizophrenia. Based on these results, we studied roughly what role MGP plays in the therapy of adolescents with emotional disturbances.

….. MGP is characterized by time extended sessions (traditionally 90 minutes) of several hours, sometimes, 12 or more….. MGP provides the adolescent group with a special opportunity for free role experimentation, heightening emotional experiencing of repressed feelings, working through defensive maneuvers and characteriological facades, and so on.

….. The obszrvation period of the patients for this survey ranged from 1 and 1/2 years to 6 and 1/2 years with an average of 4 years.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi- ... 2/PDFSTART"

I’m sure if you read the study you’ll find it quite similar to aspect of other programs. In fact many parts of it look just like what you would see on todays programs’ homepages. The point though is that the study showed a significant portion of the patients developed schizophrenia.

[Eliscu2]

On that Schitzo note.....

http://http://www.moshersoteria.com/

-snip
Loren Mosher (1933-2004) was chief of the National Institute of Mental Health's Center for the Study of Schizophrenia from 1968 to 1980. Mosher wanted to create an effective and more humane way to help psychiatry's most seriously troubled patients. Using National Institute of Mental Health funds, Mosher opened the first Soteria House in Santa Clara, California in 1971.

Mosher's Soteria House experiment is detailed by former Boston Globe reporter Robert Whitaker in Mad in America. In Soteria House, newly diagnosed schizophrenic patients lived medication-free with a young, nonprofessional staff trained to listen to and understand them and provide companionship. Mosher tested his idea that "schizophrenia can often be overcome with the help of meaningful relationships rather than with drugs, and that such treatment would eventually lead to unquestionably healthier lives."

The Soteria House experiment worked better than Mosher had expected. Over the initial six weeks, patients recovered as quickly as those treated with medication in hospitals. Whitaker notes, "Even more striking, the Soteria patients were staying well longer. Relapse rates were lower for the Soteria group at both one-year and two-year follow-ups. The Soteria patients were also functioning better socially -- better able to hold jobs and attend schools."

Mosher's success with nonprofessional caregivers and without drugs embarrassed establishment psychiatry. The National Institute of Mental Health choked off funding causing Soteria House to close down. By 1998 Mosher was so disgusted with establishment psychiatry that he wrote a widely publicized letter of resignation from the American Psychiatric Association. Establishment psychiatry, which in recent times usually ignores anti-establishment psychiatrists such as Mosher, had to respond and did so by accusing Mosher of wanting to abolish drug treatments. However, abolishing the option of drug treatment was never Mosher's goal.

Loren Mosher remains a hero for many anti-establishment consumer- and patient-rights organizations such as MindFreedom. MindFreedom also does not advocate for abolishing the option of drug treatment but instead advocates for truly informed choice as well as for alternatives beyond establishment psychiatric treatments -- alternatives such as Soteria House. I recently spoke with two members of MindFreedom, a married couple. Both wife and husband had been diagnosed in the past with schizophrenia. The wife chose to stay on psychiatric drugs, while the husband -- who had especially debilitating adverse effects with his psychiatric drugs -- chose to go without drugs. Their different paths initially created tension in the marriage but both ultimately quite graciously accepted each other's decision.

These are the true issues: Do Americans have mental health treatment choices that are informed choices? Why, when Big Pharma corruption has long been known, does it take Congressional investigations for the mainstream media to inform Americans of the financial relationships that drug companies have with high-profile psychiatrists and major psychiatry institutions? And most importantly, when will Americans get real choices when it comes to their mental health?

A real choice is not a choice between Prozac or Zoloft, not between Zyprexa or Risperdal. One example of a real choice is the choice between establishment psychiatry or Soteria House.

Bruce E. Levine, Ph.D., is a clinical psychologist and author of Surviving America's Depression Epidemic: How to Find Morale, Energy, and Community in a World Gone Crazy (Chelsea Green, 2007).
-end snip
http://http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/psych-drug-corp/pharma-levine

[Awake]

Interesting post on schizophrenia. I do want to stress how there is also a relationship with the Double Bind and Schizophrenia, AND the Double Bind as a context that CREATES THE IDENTIFIABLE SYMPTOMS of schizophrenia or mental illness, as it can be easily misdiagnosed by anyone reading from the DSM, including the most highly esteemed licensed psychologists.


I also want to note that it looks like i was wrong about the origins of ' the philosophy of as if', ursus was right. I noted at least 3 lenghty quotes from Vaihinger's 'Philosophy of As If' in the original work that inspired Neuro Linguistic Programming, The Structure of Magic Vol I, Bandler and Grinder.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30591&p=364699&hilit=nlp#p364699
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423&p=364700&hilit=nlp#p364700


Not to mention, Casriel and the New Identity Process, Bonding and Attachment therapy, still big business in TC's


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30647


.

[Awake]

Casriel has recently been added to wikepedia for those interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Harold_Casriel

[Awake]

(This was in response to a conversation on this thread ‘Where did ‘the game’ come from  viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32589  ‘ ,but I thought it was more relevant here)

I have some background on where Casriel got some of his influence, however, I am no expert on him. He is really quite mysterious imo and certain stylistic aspects of his approach are suspiciously hard to trace. Casreil developed the New Identity Process, which is now called Bonding Therapy, which is based on the Attachment Theory of John Bowlby and others. I find it interesting that the Attachment Therapy (also based on attachment theory) of Robert Zaslow, and Primal Therapy by Arthur Janov all emerged at right around the same time, but despite the VERY similar approaches they seem to have developed independently of each other.  A common emphasis in all of them is acting out, or catharting, over childhood trauma. This undoubtedly has it’s roots in the Cathartic Method, as old as psychotherapy itself. http://www.freudfile.org/psychoanalysis ... erapy.html

 The Cathartic Method  was a common practice in Freud’s early career, due to Breuer,  to employ a model of hypnosis, age regression, and achievement of catharsis over a repressed childhood trauma (abreaction). He ended up abandoning this process because he concluded that the therapeutic results were due to what he termed ‘transference’ and didn’t provide a lasting cure (as exampled by Anna O.’s falling in love with Breuer). So he abandoned it in favor of ‘free association’.

More recently Jacob Moreno and psychodrama also focused on catharsis. He felt that catharsis needed to be acted out even more deeply and in more ways.  Humanistic Psychiatry and the Human Potential Movement was all the rage leading up to and during Casriels time in the spotlight, Carl Rogers was largely responsible for the widespread use of sensitivity training which he called ‘encounter groups’. Some pretty marked changes showed up in Synanon that were resemblant of humanism. Human potential groups also focused heavily on inducing cathartic states, it was a held belief that the point of catharsis is the point at which a person is de-programmed and ready to accept new programming. Today ‘age regression’ and ‘abreaction’ are often terms heard in relation to the area of hypnosis. There is a commonly reffered to ‘trick’ in this area called the ‘affect bridge’ technique, which is just following a particular feeling back to when someone first remembers feeling it and focusing on that as the source of current problems. All in all what seems to be Casriels goal is to not just stop with age regression and catharsis, but to also ‘re-parent’ the individual from that point in development by applying attachment theory principles. This seems to be utilized by Casriel and a unique flare he adds to the Synanon group dynamic. So anyways, it is hard to get a clear reading on Casriel. Since Bowlby is the respected figure in this area it is probably important to note HIS perspective on the validity of Age Regression.


“Bowlby explicitly rejected the notion of regression stating "present knowledge of infant and child development requires that a theory of developmental pathways should replace theories that invoke specific phases of development in which it is held a person may become fixated and/or to which he may regress." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_therapy “

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