Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
as per your request
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---
On 2005-09-02 16:07:00, cleveland wrote:
And I was a super-loyal, full time Seed kid for 7 years, pal. So...
YOUR choice - not mine. When I graduated the program and felt I had achieved my "goal" (getting off drugs and such), I was sooo looking forward to getting on w/ MY life and did!! Were you shackled at the time?? I was not - I moved on.
--- End quote ---
marcwordsmith:
At the risk of speaking for someone else, Anonymous, I think Cleveland's point was simply that, given he was a loyal Seedling for a long time, his criticisms of the Seed shouldn't be casually dismissed by JU or anyone else. He wasn't complaining about his tenure.
Good for you for moving on with your life. I hope it's been good, on balance.
cleveland:
Funny, I just went back on this thread and read JU's posting directed to me, dripping with sarcasm. I guess I must have touched a nerve, John, I'm sorry. I am also glad that you have achieved your goals, and that you are living a good, productive life. I apologise for my own sarcasm, which is a weapon of weakness. My weakness is my anger in reaction to your post, where you flip my own questioning and challenging the Seed back on me - essentially to put me on trial for my Seed years, my relationship with my family, my own integrity, and my present.
Wow.
I am back on the front row, I guess! Fortunately, I am an adult at this point, and I WILL walk out those doors. At the age of 19, I was in turmoil, looking for someone to tell me, please, what to do with my life. The Seed supplied all of the answers without ambiguity, and I signed on. I won't do so now.
I won't take the bait, John.
All I am doing here is exploring my feelings, both positive and negative, about my 7 year association with now-defunct drug rehab/cult/community of choice, whatever you want to call it. I have legitimate questions about the value of that association for me, the usefulness of that model in current treatment for addiction, and the role of coercion, peer pressure and 'choice' play. I have seen family members struggle with addiction, including my own mom who required a legal and financial guardian and involuntary treatment for alcohol-induced mental and physical breakdown, so I have struggled with these issues in a way that is not merely academic.
I would love it, John, if you would address these issues: when is it OK to compel someone into treatment? What should the nature of that treatment be? And what are the limits to that treatment, if 'tough-love' or whatever is a part of it than how do you eliminate abuses?
Walter
Stripe:
To the forum participants and moderators:
I have not re-read this thread or the other John Underwood threads, nor do I care to. My first read through was enough. I found the responses more often than not condescending and really insufficient. This is especially so in light of the fact that the moderator guaranteed Mr. Underwood would be immune from the very kind of responses he has put out there to some very probing and sincere questions.
Frankly, I got nothing much at all from the what Underwood posted - well, other than pissed off at myself for: 1) wasting my time (again) and 2) actually believing for even one instant that there would be a truthful, thoughtful response from a responsible staff member. My bad.
I do feel for the folks who put in years at the seed only to be summarily dismissed and insulted with sarcastic and caustic responses from Underwood.
I just think it's very interesting and telling that Mr. Underwood could not stop himself from attempting to undermine and put down the questioners -- even in the face of the moderator's guarnatees. The flawed dogma and programmed thought processes prevail. That's enough to convince me of the value of what I read and the longterm effects of that programming.
I try every day to be impeccable with my word, spoken and written. Some days I succeed, some days I fall short. But regardless of the end result of my effort, if I am wrong I acknowledge it and try to learn from my errors.
What I see here in this discussion, and the others, is that in the Seed world there is no error. If there is any error to be perceived or entertained, it falls fully upon me to acknowledge it and deal with the consequences - whether the error is mine or anothers.
Anonymous:
I object. Overruled. I'll see you in my chambers.
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